Discussion Asking God for a sign.

[Forever Sleep]

This is obviously more for the religious members here but- do you ever ask God for a sign or for clarification on things? Do you ever feel like you've had a response?

I lean more towards atheism now but I was raised with someone who believed that suicides go to hell. That's quite worrying to still have as a nagging thought.

It's not massively clear in the Christian faith either way. So- this is my thought. If I get to the point where I'm more sure I'm going to go- I might try speaking to God direct- in case there is one. I'll say that I'm unclear on their stance on suicide but, it's something I want to do. Could they give me some indication if they're really against it? That's fair isn't it? That's how I'd deal with a problem in life. If you're worried something you intend to do breaks a rule- you get clarification.

Why wouldn't God answer? Why leave it to us to guess or interpret ambiguous texts? Personally, I don't think they will answer. I've known family members who were devout Christians pray to God to release them from the pain they were in. If God couldn't be arsed to help them, I can't see them having the time to answer my questions but still- seems fair to try.

Realistically- God could actually make it clear now. They must know what we're all thinking. So, why don't they?

 

[Darkover]

if god exist it doesn't care for any of the things it creates that's clear because we wouldn't be living in this world, i don't believe anything intelligent created the universe, i believe the universe is the real deal not just some simulation since maths can't produce emotions heat and cold happiness and sadness, in my opinion only the naive and gullible would believe in any of the world religions, only humans would could up with an explanation for everything to created by a god, religion is for stupid people who can't comprehend science.

 

[Forever Sleep]

if god exist it doesn't care for any of the things it creates that's clear because we wouldn't be living in this world, i don't believe anything intelligent created the universe, i believe the universe is the real deal not just some simulation since maths can't produce emotions heat and cold happiness and sadness, in my opinion only the naive and gullible would believe in any of the world religions, only humans would could up with an explanation for everything to created by a god, religion is for stupid people who can't comprehend science.

I have found that the super smart people I've known in life tended to be atheists. That said, I've also known one or two very clever people who were religious.

If I'm honest, I kind of wondered why they were. Why couldn't they see the problems with it? There again, they were much smarter than me so, I wondered if maybe they were right. It obviously made sense to them.

I think it's more complicated than that though. I imagine lots of religious people are indoctrinated from a very young age. If they don't have bad experiences with their faith and upbringing, I would think other things start to come in to play- nostalgia, security, guilt and fear for straying from their faith. If nothing happens to make them want to challenge it or, quit it- why would they?

 

[whywere]

Yes. I do not believe in organized religion, but I do believe in a GOD and a devil.

I say my evening prayers every night when I retire and through the decades, I have had situations in life that turned out to be really good.

Back in March 2014 I was having pain in my middle section of my body. They thought it was ulcers and after tests came back, I had gall bladder cancer. If they would have diagnosed it around a month later than they did, they said that it would have been a stage 4 terminal cancer.

In April 2015 driving south on a highway and another person was driving east and he blew through the stop sign and I t-boned him. It really tore me up however, if I had not been wearing my seat belt, the state trooper told me that I would have died.

So, 2 years in a row i cheated death and at least for me I got help from GOD. Now others say that it was just what it was, and everyone is entitled to their thoughts and opinions and for me I had help.

Lots of well wishes to everyone here.

Walter

 

[alienfreak]

I don't believe in any religions, but I traveled to a place of religious significance recently, and said that it was god's chance if he wants to speak to me.

Strangely i did have a profound emotional response there. But it was sadness and disappointment, and despair at the state of humanity - largely because i was surrounded by tourists that did not appreciate or respect where they were. I also had a feeling that whatever spiritual forces there are, they must have abandoned us.

After this i realised that no matter what sort of "sign" i was given by a god, i would never know whether it was really god speaking to me or not.

I lean more towards atheism now but I was raised with someone who believed that suicides go to hell. That's quite worrying to still have as a nagging thought.

I would remind myself regularly that there are many religions so there's no reason to put special focus on christianity. Maybe the old Japanese culture was right and we should kill ourselves to preserve our honour in many cases, or maybe the aztecs were right and we should sacrifice people to the gods

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Well on Friday before I had my panic attack at work, I thought maybe I was desperate enough to ask God for help to see if he'd give me the strength and courage to not have a panic attack.

Given that I did end up having a panic attack I guess I showed him. Or maybe he showed me. Or maybe I've already become too unworthy for him to even bother. Whatever the case I don't think I can rely on him for help. I am agnostic but I do think it's possible there could be a god or gods and whoever they are they probably hate me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I don't believe in any religions, but I traveled to a place of religious significance recently, and said that it was god's chance if he wants to speak to me.

Strangely i did have a profound emotional response there. But it was sadness and disappointment, and despair at the state of humanity - largely because i was surrounded by tourists that did not appreciate or respect where they were. I also had a feeling that whatever spiritual forces there are, they must have abandoned us.

After this i realised that no matter what sort of "sign" i was given by a god, i would never know whether it was really god speaking to me or not.

I would remind myself regularly that there are many religions so there's no reason to put special focus on christianity. Maybe the old Japanese culture was right and we should kill ourselves to preserve our honour in many cases, or maybe the aztecs were right and we should sacrifice people to the gods

That's a good point. I wondered that afterwards- like- what if I had a dream that seemed to indicate that I shouldn't kill myself? How would I be sure that was from God?

I've thought about it in terms of deceased family members too. I lost quite a few in early childhood. People like to try and reassure you that they never leave us but, I'm not so convinced. I suppose when I was young, I always felt safe and happy in my Nana's house. I think I used to feel like my Mum was around there (she died when I was 3.) Really though, it may well just have been the influence of my Nana. That she made it such a nice environment. But now, I don't really feel like they're around. They must know how I feel. I think, if I had a child that felt suicidal, I hope I'd do more. That surely means they either can't because they don't exist or, can't connect. Or, that they won't.

I also relate to how you feel about those tourists not respecting the place you visited. I went to look around where the Crystal Palace used to stand (in the UK) once. It was a massive glass house built for the Great Exhibition of 1851. It was later moved out of London and eventually was destroyed in a fire. Not masses remain but there are sculptures of lions and the gardens to look around. It was just so sad though because people had put graffiti all over them. Don't get me wrong. I don't actually mind some graffiti in urban landcapes but, this just felt like vandalism. So disrepectful too. That place must have been remarkable in its day. Even now, it would be impressive were it still standing. It's just upsetting really that all some people want to do is destroy stuff. I suppose the better thing would be to consider why they are so angry but, I find it hard to progress that far.

 

[Praestat_Mori]

If there is a god he could prevent all that kind of suffering before it happens so nobody has to bother him with questions that he doesn't answer anyway.

 

[Alexei_Kirillov]

I have found that the super smart people I've known in life tended to be atheists. That said, I've also known one or two very clever people who were religious.

If I'm honest, I kind of wondered why they were. Why couldn't they see the problems with it? There again, they were much smarter than me so, I wondered if maybe they were right. It obviously made sense to them.

I think it's more complicated than that though. I imagine lots of religious people are indoctrinated from a very young age. If they don't have bad experiences with their faith and upbringing, I would think other things start to come in to play- nostalgia, security, guilt and fear for straying from their faith. If nothing happens to make them want to challenge it or, quit it- why would they?

I don't think it has anything to do with intelligence tbh. Some of the most intelligent people in history (ex. Thomas Aquinas, Isaac Newton, Francis Bacon, etc.) have not just been religious, but fervently so. Many have applied their highly developed reasoning skills to understanding God and have not had their faith dissuaded in the least by that exercise.

I've basically come to the conclusion that both theism and atheism are equally valid, reasonable, justifiable systems of belief that ultimately just come down to whether you naturally feel it or not. After all, you can't choose what you are or aren't convinced of; you could show the exact same (valid) argument to two different people and one might be totally swayed by it while the other might be completely unmoved.

I see it in the same way that I see belief in the value in life: some people naturally feel it, some people don't. The problem comes when either group starts to force their belief on those who don't share it (in this example, it would be pro-lifers forcibly preventing people from CTBing), or when they start claiming that it's irrational/delusional/a sign of mental illness to belong to the other group.

 

[PhDone]

I would say I'm a reasonably smart person, doctorate and multiple degrees including science and engineering, if thats at least some measure of intelligence. I am fairly well versed in those religious and spiritual traditions that sit with me. And tbh how they see the fundamentals are starting be more and more in alignment with quantum physics and an intelligent universe as the 'source' of creation. Does this mean there are souls and angels etc? Not necessarily of course. But read the key traditions and replace key words with Q physics terms and you have a fairly consistent assessment. Now that doesnt also mean dogma and doctrine hold eg God says do this, dont do that. To me that is context and era relevant social sensibilities. And the descended master and surrounding layers that constite the cornerstones of the religion seem v related to the country and era too. I believe we are all climbing up the same mountain with different views.

So within this can we access miracles. Yes i believe we can. This is called directing energy. Whether you approach this spiritually eg prayer, or Q mechanically, working with pre-matter, the result is the same. We call things into being. We are so established in seeing our world in matter and physicality we have little concept of the quantum realm. There is so much more 'magic' out there than we can imagine. Nikola Tesla believed we are one, as do many wisdom traditions. So we are all connected, Q would say entangled, at a deep level. We can push and pull on the field. The infinite field it turns out is v like the force in Star Wars. That was exactly the point of the film. 'Religious' (spiritual) connotations. So yes we can influence the field. It can influence us. We are made of it. Not a stand alone avatar within it.

How do we access this, how do we call on God? How do we hear Him? This is about tapping into areas of deep connection. Realising we ARE the field, ARE (part of) God - we are rays of the sun, connected and part of the same source. As Rumi said, we are not drops in the ocean, but the ocean in a drop. We have to cultivate accessing this. It can appear externally as miracles or messages or internally as wisdom or prophecies. Ive experienced both.

So why am I here, sick and wanting to ctb? Great question. I certainly used to feel the wave and then think i fell off it. Maybe i didnt listen. But life is not just my life alone, it is the influence of all others and all parts. Good and bad are just philosophical terms we have applied to things. People are pushing and pulling on this collective thing, so the fractal that is life produces outcomes. Sometimes we can influence that in a seemingly v personal way. But it doesnt always go in our favour.

I shout and scream to God all the time, "help me". I feel trapped and I have no way out. I cant even decide finally to ctb. So I ask for that wisdom or guidance to appear. But honestly if we are energy then high and low vibration makes a difference. I have never felt I am such low vibration, dark and stale, before. Maybe thats why I'm not hearing or feeling anything.

Just my two cents!! Great discussion.

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

I believe in God 100%, but like many others in this forum, I question why he allows so much suffering. I do believe there's a reason for it, but my thoughts on this are that the suffering must eventually end for it to be of much value.

 

[doneforlife]

The answer lies in one word. Love . This is what the spiritual people say. If you love someone, they are always in your thoughts, every single moment. You keep thinking about them , and before you are done with that thought, you have another one , again about them . Non stop. You don't have to force yourself to think , the thought flows freely, in fact you have to force yourself to stop thinking about them. This is your state when you are in love with someone. Have you loved God ? I haven't. It's difficult for me. But that's what the spiritual people say . It's the only way you can communicate with God. Now please don't ask why does God want us to love him/her/it . But if you have loved truly, you will get reciprocated . That's the claim.

 

[PhDone]

I believe in God 100%, but like many others in this forum, I question why he allows so much suffering. I do believe there's a reason for it, but my thoughts on this are that the suffering must eventually end for it to be of much value.

I agree. The "live and learn" adage demands an overcoming or coming out the other side. Suffering that doesnt end? Just torture.

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

Why leave it to us to guess or interpret ambiguous texts?

well those were written by man.

so you fear hell. what is your imagination of heaven? i was brought up christian. most of my family still are. i've seen lots of crap though both from pastors and the congregation so basically i've distanced myself from it along with there being no proof, there being multiple religions and what seems to me... rationality.

i do not believe in an afterlife. i do not believe in a heaven. for what purpose would you exist and how would your previous relationships come into play. for example, you get married 'til death do you part'. some may never even get that far. so that sounds like once you die, all relations are severed (man of church is performing the ceremony after all).

so why do you continue to exist? friends, parents, children.. everyone has a different story. kids get abandoned or abused. friends come and go. once you die, is all forgiven and you suddenly just fade into some sort of bliss if you led a clean life?

reincarnation? supposedly it started with adam n eve from my 'religion'. where the f did all the other souls come from???

they say that god just wants your faith and repentance and all is forgiven. do you really buy that? so murderers and other criminals can be your neighbors? what about the mentally unstable? do they just get a free ride to hell?

 

[star.trip]

I would say I'm a reasonably smart person, doctorate and multiple degrees including science and engineering, if thats at least some measure of intelligence. I am fairly well versed in those religious and spiritual traditions that sit with me. And tbh how they see the fundamentals are starting be more and more in alignment with quantum physics and an intelligent universe as the 'source' of creation. Does this mean there are souls and angels etc? Not necessarily of course. But read the key traditions and replace key words with Q physics terms and you have a fairly consistent assessment. Now that doesnt also mean dogma and doctrine hold eg God says do this, dont do that. To me that is context and era relevant social sensibilities. And the descended master and surrounding layers that constite the cornerstones of the religion seem v related to the country and era too. I believe we are all climbing up the same mountain with different views.

So within this can we access miracles. Yes i believe we can. This is called directing energy. Whether you approach this spiritually eg prayer, or Q mechanically, working with pre-matter, the result is the same. We call things into being. We are so established in seeing our world in matter and physicality we have little concept of the quantum realm. There is so much more 'magic' out there than we can imagine. Nikola Tesla believed we are one, as do many wisdom traditions. So we are all connected, Q would say entangled, at a deep level. We can push and pull on the field. The infinite field it turns out is v like the force in Star Wars. That was exactly the point of the film. 'Religious' (spiritual) connotations. So yes we can influence the field. It can influence us. We are made of it. Not a stand alone avatar within it.

How do we access this, how do we call on God? How do we hear Him? This is about tapping into areas of deep connection. Realising we ARE the field, ARE (part of) God - we are rays of the sun, connected and part of the same source. As Rumi said, we are not drops in the ocean, but the ocean in a drop. We have to cultivate accessing this. It can appear externally as miracles or messages or internally as wisdom or prophecies. Ive experienced both.

So why am I here, sick and wanting to ctb? Great question. I certainly used to feel the wave and then think i fell off it. Maybe i didnt listen. But life is not just my life alone, it is the influence of all others and all parts. Good and bad are just philosophical terms we have applied to things. People are pushing and pulling on this collective thing, so the fractal that is life produces outcomes. Sometimes we can influence that in a seemingly v personal way. But it doesnt always go in our favour.

I shout and scream to God all the time, "help me". I feel trapped and I have no way out. I cant even decide finally to ctb. So I ask for that wisdom or guidance to appear. But honestly if we are energy then high and low vibration makes a difference. I have never felt I am such low vibration, dark and stale, before. Maybe thats why I'm not hearing or feeling anything.

Just my two cents!! Great discussion.

First I want to tell you that I really liked this way of describing.

I have always thought that there is this connection as a thread or set of threads in which we are somehow connected. Evidently, being in a characteristic space we obey the physical and mathematical laws although most of the things escape our understanding. Probably, there are more particles or laws that we do not know and this is so because we do not have all the answers with the tools that physics or mathematics offer us.
The problem is how you connect with those areas of deep connection. Can the conscious mind access that or is it a matter of sensitivity.

Any living being's basic goal is to survive, and there are some that will succeed because they are better adapted to the environment and others that will not. Many times I feel that I am one of those who do not make it.

I have also looked for that signal but it may never come to me and waiting for it makes me desperate because in the meantime I suffer because of the uncertainty. That's why I always pray to God before I go to sleep not to wake up.

 

[star.trip]

Why leave it to us to guess or interpret ambiguous texts?

Let us suppose that these texts were written by God. How can we pretend to understand what is written in human language if it was written in the language of God.
As human beings we always relate facts or experiences with some meaning (words or emotions) that is part of our being for some purpose.

Now, let us suppose that it was written by men, then they must use a language that is not very precise and subject to different interpretations, so that any situation that happens is reflected in that text. Therefore, the language in which it was written is imprecise and open to as many interpretations as you want.

This is just my opinion. I am not an expert.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Let us suppose that these texts were written by God. How can we pretend to understand what is written in human language if it was written in the language of God.
As human beings we always relate facts or experiences with some meaning (words or emotions) that is part of our being for some purpose.

Now, let us suppose that it was written by men, then they must use a language that is not very precise and subject to different interpretations, so that any situation that happens is reflected in that text. Therefore, the language in which it was written is imprecise and open to as many interpretations as you want.

This is just my opinion. I am not an expert.

Fair point. Aren't some of the religious books considered to be the hand of God though? I thought the Quran was.

I suppose my argument is- why leave it to man to do it though? I'm sure God is multilingual. I'm sure if they wanted to make their will known and clear- they could- surely? Why are they ok with people misinterpreting them (presumably- we can't have all got it right.) Especially if they retain the right to punish us if we get it wrong.

 

[PhDone]

First I want to tell you that I really liked this way of describing.

I have always thought that there is this connection as a thread or set of threads in which we are somehow connected. Evidently, being in a characteristic space we obey the physical and mathematical laws although most of the things escape our understanding. Probably, there are more particles or laws that we do not know and this is so because we do not have all the answers with the tools that physics or mathematics offer us.
The problem is how you connect with those areas of deep connection. Can the conscious mind access that or is it a matter of sensitivity.

Any living being's basic goal is to survive, and there are some that will succeed because they are better adapted to the environment and others that will not. Many times I feel that I am one of those who do not make it.

I have also looked for that signal but it may never come to me and waiting for it makes me desperate because in the meantime I suffer because of the uncertainty. That's why I always pray to God before I go to sleep not to wake up.

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

I agree, still so many threads and connections missing. No way physics and maths can describe things fully. Error terms, big problem, says "what we have is a best guess but its fundamentally flawed". Every time we learn something new laws and maths get rewritten. And in the midst of this we the common (wo)man try and decipher our place and our life. We have little idea really. We just like to have models that sound good.

Why are we no closer to knowing what happens after we die? No matter how well we progress understanding things in our world we just never have decent evidence. NDE are too consistent with biology giving us signals during shut down.

 

[Forever Sleep]

well those were written by man.

so you fear hell. what is your imagination of heaven? i was brought up christian. most of my family still are. i've seen lots of crap though both from pastors and the congregation so basically i've distanced myself from it along with there being no proof, there being multiple religions and what seems to me... rationality.

i do not believe in an afterlife. i do not believe in a heaven. for what purpose would you exist and how would your previous relationships come into play. for example, you get married 'til death do you part'. some may never even get that far. so that sounds like once you die, all relations are severed (man of church is performing the ceremony after all).

so why do you continue to exist? friends, parents, children.. everyone has a different story. kids get abandoned or abused. friends come and go. once you die, is all forgiven and you suddenly just fade into some sort of bliss if you led a clean life?

reincarnation? supposedly it started with adam n eve from my 'religion'. where the f did all the other souls come from???

they say that god just wants your faith and repentance and all is forgiven. do you really buy that? so murderers and other criminals can be your neighbors? what about the mentally unstable? do they just get a free ride to hell?

I fear God in general- if there is one. I don't think I fancy heaven or hell for an eternity! I'm hoping there's nothing now.

I used to hope I'd see deceased family members in heaven. I wasn't very imaginative about it though. A kind of water garden setting. Lots of white marble with vines and grapes. Lol. But yeah, a brief reunion would be nice. Anything longer and I expect I'd be getting lectures on aspects of my failed life.

 

[Praying 4 a Miracle]

I don't believe that any human being will ever know for sure what's on the other side of the big curtain, until we are actually on that side of the curtain. The problem is, if it's not what we expect or are hoping for, there's no going back.

 

[Forever Sleep]

The answer lies in one word. Love . This is what the spiritual people say. If you love someone, they are always in your thoughts, every single moment. You keep thinking about them , and before you are done with that thought, you have another one , again about them . Non stop. You don't have to force yourself to think , the thought flows freely, in fact you have to force yourself to stop thinking about them. This is your state when you are in love with someone. Have you loved God ? I haven't. It's difficult for me. But that's what the spiritual people say . It's the only way you can communicate with God. Now please don't ask why does God want us to love him/her/it . But if you have loved truly, you will get reciprocated . That's the claim.

I love nature but, not all of it. Some of it's pretty cruel. But- as an Artist, if there is a God that designed rainbows and waterfalls, trees, animals etc- sure- I can feel awe and love towards that. It's hard to understand their reasoning in terms of morals though. Unless there truly is a much bigger picture and suffering is actually unavoidable in it.

I suppose it's equally as remarkable that all this evolved out of chance though.

 

[Darkover]

I don't believe that any human being will ever know for sure what's on the other side of the big curtain, until we are actually on that side of the curtain. The problem is, if it's not what we expect or are hoping for, there's no going back.

i don't believe in any god one things for sure there no coming back from death, once your gone your gone, your just a machine made up of atoms and every machine eventually break down and becomes fragments of its former self and in the process becoming part of the environment, whatever made you want you are no longer exists at all nor do you

 

[TAW122]

I'm an atheist, however, when I was growing up, I was surrounded by theists and people who were religious (to varying degrees of course). More often than not (and when I was young, more impressionable and naive, the lack of deep insight, critical thinking, and adequate skepticism) they would push religion in almost every situation. If I got a problem or situation that had no answer (or any possibly adequate answer), one of the first things they spout is 'God'. It was very infuriating and it wasn't until I was in my late teens or even near/at adulthood did I actually start to critically deconstruct religion in depth. While I was younger I didn't really follow and I had a 'hunch' that it was just bogus and useless, it didn't help my situation, those 'miracles' simply did not happen (which was ironically, my first sign of doubt and skepticism at religion in general). It all sounded too good to be true. I would say my anecdotal life experiences shaped me more into who I am and only reaffirmed, confirmed, and proved my suspicions to be right, albeit at the time I didn't have the terms or way of expressing what I was feeling or thinking (even though subconsciously I resisted and knew something wasn't right - through logic).

In college and adulthood I only further cemented and solidified my atheism more as I went through logic and processing to deeply deconstruct the religious values and tenets that were espoused, despite the best efforts by apologists to continuously justify and come up with illogical explanations and logical inconsistencies when faced with questions. That's when my light switch in logic flicked and I knew that no matter what they always resort to logical fallacies and inconsistencies and that they had no good explanation (outside of fallacies and unfalsifiable claims).

In short, when I was younger, I did try out what the religious people suggested, but when I knew it was phony or didn't work and later confirmed when I was an adult, I just became more atheistic and steadfast in atheism and logic. That was also when I knew that there were things outside of my control and that science (at least it was observable, demonstrable, and verifiable, etc.) could explain things better, or at least had more credibility than just 'faith'. As someone who operates on logic, confidence, and observable aspects of the natural world, I trust logic, science, and reasoning far more than I ever for religion (or even pseudo-religion).

 

[nihilistic_dragon]

When I was religious, yes, there were many times I BEGGED god for a sign. Was literally pulling my hair out in despair, crying and praying for answers.

Then it dawned on me that nobody's listening.

 

[star.trip]

Thanks for the feedback. Appreciate it.

I agree, still so many threads and connections missing. No way physics and maths can describe things fully. Error terms, big problem, says "what we have is a best guess but its fundamentally flawed". Every time we learn something new laws and maths get rewritten. And in the midst of this we the common (wo)man try and decipher our place and our life. We have little idea really. We just like to have models that sound good.

Why are we no closer to knowing what happens after we die? No matter how well we progress understanding things in our world we just never have decent evidence. NDE are too consistent with biology giving us signals during shut down.

So, we agree that there is something, let's call it thread, connections, force (star wars), etc. . I totally agree with this sentence "what we have is a best guess but its fundamentally flawed". Also, I would add this: "The theory makes a good case, but it doesn't get us any closer to the secret of the Old Man (God). I am quite convinced that He does not play dice" this is what Einstein said in a letter to the German Max Born.
In reference to that something being God, it may or may not be. There is no scientific evidence to prove it. This depends on what each one decides to believe. In the field of beliefs, it is difficult to argue precisely because of what the word belief implies.

Regarding the NDE, one can only get accounts of experiences that technically have been dead, but in the end they are just experiences. We are limited to knowing in advance what that entails, although we will all eventually find out. I guess the limit, in this case, tends at most to the world of consciousness. (In this case the mathematical limit tending to infinity cannot be).

P.S. I hope I don't offend you with this but I find it funny that your nickname says Phdone and just below it student. Because Phdone is the highest to which one can aspire in the university environment and student is the beginning. I guess one never has to be a student in this life.

Fair point. Aren't some of the religious books considered to be the hand of God though? I thought the Quran was.

I suppose my argument is- why leave it to man to do it though? I'm sure God is multilingual. I'm sure if they wanted to make their will known and clear- they could- surely? Why are they ok with people misinterpreting them (presumably- we can't have all got it right.) Especially if they retain the right to punish us if we get it wrong.

Well, with respect to that, why people misunderstand it, or use it to punish, that would be another matter. I don't know the intentions of those people, I prefer to take care of my own.

 

[PhDone]

So, we agree that there is something, let's call it thread, connections, force (star wars), etc. . I totally agree with this sentence "what we have is a best guess but its fundamentally flawed". Also, I would add this: "The theory makes a good case, but it doesn't get us any closer to the secret of the Old Man (God). I am quite convinced that He does not play dice" this is what Einstein said in a letter to the German Max Born.
In reference to that something being God, it may or may not be. There is no scientific evidence to prove it. This depends on what each one decides to believe. In the field of beliefs, it is difficult to argue precisely because of what the word belief implies.

Thats a great quote. Yeah 'beliefs' is hard for sure. But we know that science doesnt have the ability to prove everything. Too many people argue about the non-existence of things based on having no proof. We continue to 'discover' things we didnt know existed when we our capabilities improve. Humans I suspect are still at a super basic level of capability, including the fact we dont access significant percentage of our brain.

Regarding the NDE, one can only get accounts of experiences that technically have been dead, but in the end they are just experiences. We are limited to knowing in advance what that entails, although we will all eventually find out. I guess the limit, in this case, tends at most to the world of consciousness. (In this case the mathematical limit tending to infinity cannot be).

I wonder of theyve been truly dead though? Definitely biologically dead, but there is some research showing brain activity post biological death. Including some amplification of certain areas (cant quite remember what). And consciousness up to 20s even if head severed from body. So then what is the actual point of no return? Maybe, just supposing, NDE's are only amped up brain signals prior to point of no return?
If we're actually in a dream/avatar-type scenario we could all end up experiencing vastly different things based on our beliefs, like a dream would actually be.

P.S. I hope I don't offend you with this but I find it funny that your nickname says Phdone and just below it student. Because Phdone is the highest to which one can aspire in the university environment and student is the beginning. I guess one never has to be a student in this life.

Omg I bloody love this! My doctorate definitely felt like I'd reached the top of the ladder. But in actual fact it was the start of the real deep learning. It was the start of challenging the text book and research papers. Coming underneath what we're being asked to buy into.

Kind of like passing your driving test is the real starting point to driving.

Plus, we are all ongoing students of life. Or death, in our case

 

[MyChoiceAlone]

But yeah, a brief reunion would be nice

and the rest of eternity is for?