Venting As soon as you openly declare yourself suicidal, you lose your rights in society like a traitor or dissenter

[KillingPain267]

Stating intent to ctb openly, tyrrannical society declares you a dissenter and traitor who loses almost all his or her rights. You can eventually expect random police visits, forced hospitalizations, lost access to certain weapons and items, even driving, family removing all your privacy and even bank access, forced medications that may or may not work and if they don't work they will suggest to keep taking them as nothing is unacceptable. And all this harassment is done in the name of "saving you", so the tyrant preventionists even exhibit savior complexes. But in reality, everyone you tell could be a potential rat. Being suicidal is akin to being a dissenter under ISIS or East Germany with the wall or similar tyrannical states. They start with harassment, until eventual imprisonment or harmful threats of injuries if you try to leave, and all in the name of "fighting crime and saving the people" at all costs. In such tyrannical states the right to due process, fair trial is thrown out the window, just like our basic civil rights as suicidal people are thrown out the window.

I tell nobody in my country that I have ctb thoughts, not my family, not my therapist, nobody... and even then I suspect the state is already lurking here looking for "criminals" like me.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

I don't know which country you live in, but I've told my psychiatrist about this forum (not the name or URL of course) and me looking for methods and he didn't hospitalise me. So maybe you shouldn't generalize.

 

[KillingPain267]

I don't know which country you live in, but I've told my psychiatrist about this forum (not the name or URL of course) and me looking for methods and he didn't hospitalise me. So maybe you shouldn't generalize.

I know it doesn't happen every time, but it's a potential risk. Just like under a surveillance police state, many still get away with dissent. But it's just you put yourself in a more vulnerable position. I had cops and a lock pick visit me while I was sleeping because I told a friend "rat" I was suicidal.

 

[timetodie24]

sometimes it's not that dramatic depending on where you live . I once told a psychologist about my plan ( I had means, intent, timeframe) and the meeting ended before we finished talking about it as was free version of zoom lmao. She then sent me a link to a youtube video on mindfulness. Unsurprisingly, I went through with it but obviously failed.


But i have been sectioned before after an attempt and I agree it's awful to have your rights taken away. Also had my parents treating me like a child, searching my room, tracking my phone, having to show my bank statement etc. Thankfully now it's been long time since last attempt (due to finding this site and learning about better methods) so now they've stopped the prisoner like surveillance and trust me again.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

I know it doesn't happen every time, but it's a potential risk. Just like under a surveillance police state, many still get away with dissent. But it's just you put yourself in a more vulnerable position. I had cops and a lock pick visit me while I was sleeping because I told a friend "rat" I was suicidal.

Well, if I would tell my psychiatrist that I have everything set up and a date set, then there's a good chance he would have me hospitalized*. I know that and I have told him I know that and that I probably wouldn't tell him if I actually would have plans.

He stated his was concerned, but he also asked if I had thought about euthanasia because of 'unbearable mental suffering'. A possibility in Belgium, but it's a long procedure and I don't think it would be approved.


* Meaning he would first try and convince to check in of my own free will.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

I think this has deep roots in tribal consciousness. From things I read about the Germans in WW2, expressing any sentiment that the war was not going well could being executed on the spot for spreading demoralization which can poison moral and turn into dissent. This was taken to the extreme through the propaganda machine and their promises of victory through German will and wonder weapons despite the country being bombed to rubble around them.

The soviets used political psychiatric abuse on dissenters. If you weren't going around cheerfully doing factory work for bread you could be disappeared for "treatment" or reeducation.

What makes our society weird is that it constantly goads us toward sharing our feelings but then punishes you for doing so if they aren't the "correct" ones. You are correct to be very careful about sharing this info as there's historical precedent for it being used against people.

Also, when a society collapses there are usually higher than average suicide rates as fate sorts out who will be the winners and losers in the new system. We seem to be going through this on a global level now.

 

[KillingPain267]

sometimes it's not that dramatic depending on where you live . I once told a psychologist about my plan ( I had means, intent, timeframe) and the meeting ended before we finished talking about it as was free version of zoom lmao. She then sent me a link to a youtube video on mindfulness. Unsurprisingly, I went through with it but obviously failed.

Yes, I never claim it happens ALWAYS (just like political dissenters are not always caught under police states).

Also had my parents treating me like a child, searching my room, tracking my phone, having to show my bank statement etc.

That right there is a straight up violation of human rights and dignity. It's so disgusting behavior no different than a police state and in no way makes people feel free to talk about their mental health in order to treat it.

 

[Ash]

I've told friends, the mental team, doctors etc that I was suicidal and ............ the world kept turning. Nothing happened.

Obviously everyone's circumstances are different, every country is different, every region in each country is different and each of us has our own story to tell, but I really don't think threads like this are any more helpful in the dialogue about mental health and suicide than the most tabloid of tabloid headlines. It's pretty much click bait.

 

[KillingPain267]

He stated his was concerned, but he also asked if I had thought about euthanasia because of 'unbearable mental suffering'. A possibility in Belgium, but it's a long procedure and I don't think it would be approved.

See, that right there indicates he may actually be on our side and thus one of the criminal dissenter traitors of society, lol. Now imagine him openly advocating for voluntary euthanasia and legalization of N, and see how he loses his whole career, akin to a psychologist under Nazi Germany who argued against racial theories and the draft. Notice how you can be more open with him exactly BECAUSE he doesn't see you as a dissenter in immediate need of evacuation in order to "save" you (having your rights stripped).

I've told friends, the mental team, doctors etc that I was suicidal and ............ the world kept turning. Nothing happened.

Obviously everyone's circumstances are different, every country is different, every region in each country is different and each of us has our own story to tell, but I really don't think threads like this are any more helpful in the dialogue about mental health and suicide than the most tabloid of tabloid headlines. It's pretty much click bait.

I use general descriptions when I see a trend. Of course it doesn't happen ALWAYS. Not every communist under Nazi Germany was caught and imprisoned the moment they said wealth should be shared. But it was enough for us to say Nazi Germany treated communists as dissenting criminals and stripped them of their rights. We also KNOW from studies that even just mentally ill people in general are treated with less than worthy dignity and rights even in the west. But if you say that with a general headline, people will also say it's tabloidy and thus nothing will be done about it. Everyone becomes the exception to the rule once a trend is noticed. I guess the police in America don't harass and kill black people disproportionately, because most of the time and day black people don't ever see a cop.

I think this has deep roots in tribal consciousness. From things I read about the Germans in WW2, expressing any sentiment that the war was not going well could being executed on the spot for spreading demoralization which can poison moral and turn into dissent. This was taken to the extreme through the propaganda machine and their promises of victory through German will and wonder weapons despite the country being bombed to rubble around them.

The soviets used political psychiatric abuse on dissenters. If you weren't going around cheerfully doing factory work for bread you could be disappeared for "treatment" or reeducation.

What makes our society weird is that it constantly goads us toward sharing our feelings but then punishes you for doing so if they aren't the "correct" ones. You are correct to be very careful about sharing this info as there's historical precedent for it being used against people.

Also, when a society collapses there are usually higher than average suicide rates as fate sorts out who will be the winners and losers in the new system. We seem to be going through this on a global level now.

Interesting points

 

[BoneWeary57]

When someone tells another they are sucidal often times it, understandablely, fightens the other person, they care etc and want to help and don't know what to do other than to try to get professional help, remove items of potential harm etc.

I have in passing mentioned suicidal thoughts to my spouse. I don't anymore because it created a situation where my privacy was impacted (i.e. having my notes, even something as simple as a grocery list, read..bringing it up that I had mentioned it, how worried they were etc. I will not ever say anything to anyone about my ideations again. I don't want to take on the responsibility of the reactions of others - though I understand them.

 

[FuneralCry]

That's just so incredibly cruel and horrible, I wish that suicide is accepted as after all not everyone wants to suffer in this meaningless existence. People should be able to die when they want to in peace, I believe it'd bring so much relief from suffering if personal choices were respected as after all it's our existence and we are the only ones experiencing it so we should be able to choose when we die, I'd personally always prefer to not exist no matter what.

 

[Cress]

Stating intent to ctb openly, tyrrannical society declares you a dissenter and traitor who loses almost all his or her rights. You can eventually expect random police visits, forced hospitalizations, lost access to certain weapons and items, even driving, family removing all your privacy and even bank access, forced medications that may or may not work and if they don't work they will suggest to keep taking them as nothing is unacceptable. And all this harassment is done in the name of "saving you", so the tyrant preventionists even exhibit savior complexes. But in reality, everyone you tell could be a potential rat. Being suicidal is akin to being a dissenter under ISIS or East Germany with the wall or similar tyrannical states. They start with harassment, until eventual imprisonment or harmful threats of injuries if you try to leave, and all in the name of "fighting crime and saving the people" at all costs. In such tyrannical states the right to due process, fair trial is thrown out the window, just like our basic civil rights as suicidal people are thrown out the window.

I tell nobody in my country that I have ctb thoughts, not my family, not my therapist, nobody... and even then I suspect the state is already lurking here looking for "criminals" like me.

Listen I'm with you I really am I think we need to have a society that is able to discuss catching the bus in a open manner without Threats of confinement But at the same time I don't know if it's really fair to compare it to Living under a dictatorship.

I've definitely felt the oppressive nature of having people relentlessly ask how I'm going to destroy myself whenever I so much as utter that I'm having a really hard time with existence. It's a shame that there are some people that don't have a single person in their life that they can tell all the details about their suicidal ideation without being arrested.

I'll be honest I think the majority of people find it really difficult to talk about suicide and it can be really draining. Especially for people that you know in person. Hence why a lot of people turn you over to authorities Because they want to force you to be safe. It's maybe a little bit easier to do it in this environment over the Internet where we don't know each other face to face but even then some people really get upset when someone catches the bus.


It's basically a Ethical conundrum that you bring Sentient creatures into existence that can't consent to being created beforehand. I imagine the way around it would be some sort of future program where you could have people vaporize themselves after some sort of Process of trying to fix whatever issues they're having and treat them to the best of your ability. If the society can't adequately make the person comfortable to live After a certain amount of time then it seems like it would be ethical to allow them to vaporize themselves.

You can always endlessly debate The factors of How long is a reasonable amount of time to correct a person's issue before they're entitled to be vaporized. Outside of letting the human race become extinct it seems like the only ethical way to handle the creation before consent dilemma with Human sentience.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

That's just so incredibly cruel and horrible, I wish that suicide is accepted as after all not everyone wants to suffer in this meaningless existence. People should be able to die when they want to in peace, I believe it'd bring so much relief from suffering if personal choices were respected as after all it's our existence and we are the only ones experiencing it so we should be able to choose when we die, I'd personally always prefer to not exist no matter what.

I think two of the major social concerns. The first being copycat suicides which do happen like with that suicide forest in Japan or the CO method in general in Asia. I see this as something that statistically levels out. I think it could actually provide mental relief to be able to say to oneself "If things don't work out or get too bad, I can always go to the forest or buy a grill" as a safety valve against unnecessary suffering.

The second concern is weaponization by government. This is part of the argument against MAID in Canada. The premise is that as the criteria for qualification lowers so that people can ctb due to mental health or economic reasons, it effectively becomes a eugenic tool to remove burdens of the state. I saw an interview with one guy that was disabled and could no longer afford his rent. He didn't want to die but he thought he couldn't survive on the streets so he applied for MAID. Suicide statistics are always higher in poor countries. The government can rise inflation to the point of gridlocking peoples lives and then provide them with the means to end their lives under this duress, is it even suicide anymore or is it passive murder? The secondary benefit to this approach is that for the people that are established or even just getting by, they will fall in line out of fear of becoming one of the disposables.

If suicide is thought to destabilize society or the state, efforts will be made to thwart it. If suicide is seen as something that can be leveraged for the state's benefit, they will enable it and wrap it in a narrative of compassionate care to make it palatable to the masses. There's similarities with the subject of suicide and drug war. The drugs are allowed to the extent that they can be contained to certain neighborhoods and the "problem" can then be used as a selling point to draw in funds. The state will never enable suicide out of true benevolence and this is why a site like this exists.

For me personally, my reasons for wanting to ctb transcend what any government can or cannot do. If I do ultimately decide to ctb, I would opt to do so outside the apparatus of any government or medical institution. They don't like that and that's apparent as 'death with dignity' is becoming more legal and accepted, private measures like the availability of SN or even more painless medicines like N are squashed.

 

[KillingPain267]

When someone tells another they are sucidal often times it, understandablely, fightens the other person, they care etc and want to help and don't know what to do other than to try to get professional help, remove items of potential harm etc.

I have in passing mentioned suicidal thoughts to my spouse. I don't anymore because it created a situation where my privacy was impacted (i.e. having my notes, even something as simple as a grocery list, read..bringing it up that I had mentioned it, how worried they were etc. I will not ever say anything to anyone about my ideations again. I don't want to take on the responsibility of the reactions of others - though I understand them.

It's as if a suicidal person is a threat to them. And we are a threat... to their own emotions (they will miss us for example, which is just their own selfish emotion). Secondly, we also confront them with their own mortality so it's a similar reaction as self-defense would be (avoid seeing death and we can all go back to pretending we are immortal; pretending that is the default average mindset without which everything would seem meaningless). Thirdly, some have savior complexes and like the praise of having "saved a life". It's literally all just feel-good chemicals released in the body, but has nothing to do with how and why the suicidal person feels the way they feel. To hell with our choice!

Listen I'm with you I really am I think we need to have a society that is able to discuss catching the bus in a open manner without Threats of confinement But at the same time I don't know if it's really fair to compare it to Living under a dictatorship.

I've definitely felt the oppressive nature of having people relentlessly ask how I'm going to destroy myself whenever I so much as utter that I'm having a really hard time with existence. It's a shame that there are some people that don't have a single person in their life that they can tell all the details about their suicidal ideation without being arrested.

I'll be honest I think the majority of people find it really difficult to talk about suicide and it can be really draining. Especially for people that you know in person. Hence why a lot of people turn you over to authorities Because they want to force you to be safe. It's maybe a little bit easier to do it in this environment over the Internet where we don't know each other face to face but even then some people really get upset when someone catches the bus.


It's basically a Ethical conundrum that you bring Sentient creatures into existence that can't consent to being created beforehand. I imagine the way around it would be some sort of future program where you could have people vaporize themselves after some sort of Process of trying to fix whatever issues they're having and treat them to the best of your ability. If the society can't adequately make the person comfortable to live After a certain amount of time then it seems like it would be ethical to allow them to vaporize themselves.

You can always endlessly debate The factors of How long is a reasonable amount of time to correct a person's issue before they're entitled to be vaporized. Outside of letting the human race become extinct it seems like the only ethical way to handle the creation before consent dilemma with Human sentience.

It can be compared to a dictatorship, since others are trying to DICTATE with force what others can and cannot have access to do or use. I know this is an extreme comparison, but keep in mind I am consistent with it, in that I see ALL government as at least POTENTIAL dictatorships. It's all just a matter of degree of how much they dictate or how harshly. Also, not everything is due to government. You can live in mini-dictatorships, for example if your parents act like dictators, or if you live in a drug-cartel area. The point is the way you are treated (with reduced civil and human and individual rights), and this happens a lot to openly suicidal people in most areas of the world whether it be done by government, family or medical establishment. Some would like to literally strap you to a bed, thinking they have saved you, meanwhile being tied down is often akin to torture, or in fact IS torture.