[Article] Why the criminal justice system (compared to the mental health system) is the lesser of two carceral systems

[TAW122]

Disclaimer: Before I begin, I want to state that I don't support either system as they are both carceral in nature and both have devastating consequences for those who end up in either of them. These consequences include, but are not limited to the loss of freedom, civil liberties, and many other social, financial, legal, and/or professional consequences. While I have written threads on this as well as expressed my stance, this article briefly touches on it, but also reiterates my previous stance and explain more in depth of my reasoning and analysis of my stance. Some of the threads or quotes may have been buried or no longer available on SaSu (after it got purged or deleted from years ago), but the general idea and whatever I could scour as references in this thread I will include or link to. Furthermore, if I were to try to find every thread, it would be too exhaustive for me, and besides that, it would be redundant.

With that said, this thread will explain and focus on why I think those who end up in the criminal justice system (will refer to it as CJ in this thread) are 'slightly' better off than those who are in the mental health system, especially with regards and respect to civil rights, and bodily autonomy. Keep in mind that I'm not saying that those who end up in the CJ system with problems and troubles are having an easier time, but between the two carceral systems, the CJ system is the lesser of the two evils and I will explain why in this thread.

The most important distinction between both carceral systems is that in one of them, you lose your credibility, anything you say is automatically, by default, invalidated and deemed unreliable testimony or word (the mental health system – once you are branded or labeled as mentally unwell, ill, or irrational, you effectively have little to no defense against such claims or (almost) anything that happens to you). This effectively renders one just about completely defenseless and at the mercy of the system and the people within that system. However, for the CJ system, at least there are much more protections, even if one does get a bad reputation or face a lot of stigma and social consequences. These include: due process, right to a lawyer, innocent (from a legal standpoint – not public standpoint per se!) until proven guilty, recourse for false imprisonment, and many other legal remedies. There are simply (almost) none for the mental health system and far more insulting is that even testimony and stories from victims of psychiatric harm are easily invalidated by the public. There is simply almost no recourse! Now of course, maybe things are slowly changing and more people are coming to their senses and becoming more skeptical of the psychiatric system, but that may take decades or much longer, though I digress.

Additional distinctions include the aftermath of the CJ system, there are organizations that seek justice (especially for the ones who are falsely convicted and later exonerated) such as The Innocence Project, Exoneration Project, Equal Justice Initiative to name a few and even in the eyes of the public, there are some supports for those kinds of false convicts. Legally speaking, there may even be civil awards (usually monetary though) for the wrongly accused and incarcerated. But for the psychiatric system and mental health system, almost none at all. Worse yet, even the public perception is automatically mental health system did nothing wrong and the person who was "wrongly" incarcerated deserved it. In cases like these, it should make one be very angry and out in the streets raising hell, but I digress.

While there are organizations that stick up for those who are harmed by the psychiatric industry and mental health system such as the Citizens Commission for Human Rights, MindFreedomInternational, Anti Psychiatry Coalition, to name a few, they are often far and few, and still far from mainstream. In fact, they even suffer backlash from the public for sticking up for the ones who are wrongly incarcerated and treated. There are also no legal recourse for those who are harmed or wronged by them. The automatic presumption that those who are in those carceral systems deserved it or are 'helped' because they needed it is not only presumptuous, ignorant, but also very insulting towards those who are genuinely harmed and such. The CJ system itself is even pro-psychiatry and supports the carceral system itself, which is why the patients who have been mistreated or wronged by said mental health system would also have a hard time for any justice at all! In present day, we have yet to reach a point in society or have enough social and legal institutions that counter (or at least serves as a third part, a check and balance) towards the psychiatric system and mental health system.

In the end, these people who are in the mental health system not only suffer greatly, but have fewer options for recourse than those who are in the CJ system. While both person(s) outcomes are similar and often abysmal in the end, the one who was wronged in the CJ system at least have a slightly better chance of justice and recourse than those who are in the mental health system. This is because in the criminal justice system, at least people recognize the flaws within it, the injustices and horrible treatment of people (especially the innocent or wrongfully convicted). As usual, I'm not going get into all the semantics and pedantic terminologies of such as that detracts from this article and I have already discussed in other threads already without being redundant. I have listed some threads as references that delve into some of the points I've discussed in this article. Finally, this is not to glorify either system as both are carceral and very damaging to a person's existence among original problems and challenges that are a part of sentience by default.

Some older threads for reference:

"Why I would rather live in a time where CTB was actually criminalized"

"How and why psych holds (even temporary ones) are considered "legalized criminality"

"CTB while not illegal, is treated like 'a crime'"

 

[N3UR0T1C]

I completely agree with this. My opinion has always been that the courts have made the gravest of errors in allowing these blatant constitutional violations (US) when it comes to civil commitment and especially involuntary holds.

 

[Not A Fan]

As someone who has been saddled with the lifelong burden of a criminal record in the united states, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this. I've not been held in a mental institution (we barely even have them in the USA) so I can't compare. But this definitely got me thinking. They can each be pretty nightmarish, depending on the specifics. I'm lucky to have gotten through it without any major incidents. Nevertheless it is an experience that can really change you. I find I am a lot more empathetic than the average citizen towards incarcerated people.

 

[TAW122]

I completely agree with this. My opinion has always been that the courts have made the gravest of errors in allowing these blatant constitutional violations (US) when it comes to civil commitment and especially involuntary holds.

Indeed, it is as though the legal system simply turns a blind eye to civil commitment like "sorry, not a part of the legal procedure or process" and then suddenly civil rights just gets trampled on and violated.

As someone who has been saddled with the lifelong burden of a criminal record in the united states, I enjoyed reading your thoughts on this. I've not been held in a mental institution (we barely even have them in the USA) so I can't compare. But this definitely got me thinking. They can each be pretty nightmarish, depending on the specifics. I'm lucky to have gotten through it without any major incidents. Nevertheless it is an experience that can really change you. I find I am a lot more empathetic than the average citizen towards incarcerated people.

Thanks for your feedback and support. I personally have never been involved in either carceral systems and I hope I never do in my lifetime. I read a lot of stories of people who have been in those systems, done my homework and research due to my deep interest in such topics, and of course, hear about people talk about it from time to time IRL (when I was in college, after college, and more).

 

[Cinnamorolls]

So true. Prisoners get to sleep on real mattresses with sheets, can watch tv or go outside for a limited amount of time, and they also have the privilege of being separated by gender. Meanwhile victims of involuntary holds in psych hospitals have to sleep on a plastic mattress with no sheets, cannot have any media, cannot go outside, and worst of all are forced to stay in mixed-gender units. Can you imagine being a woman who experienced domestic violence or rape and being suicidal because of that, then you're locked up in a psych ward that is chock full of strange men all around you?

Involuntary holds are just evil all around. Punishing someone worse than actual criminals, treating them as less than animals, all just because they are depressed.

 

[Not A Fan]

So true. Prisoners get to sleep on real mattresses with sheets, can watch tv or go outside for a limited amount of time, and they also have the privilege of being separated by gender. Meanwhile victims of involuntary holds in psych hospitals have to sleep on a plastic mattress with no sheets, cannot have any media, cannot go outside, and worst of all are forced to stay in mixed-gender units. Can you imagine being a woman who experienced domestic violence or rape and being suicidal because of that, then you're locked up in a psych ward that is chock full of strange men all around you?

Involuntary holds are just evil all around. Punishing someone worse than actual criminals, treating them as less than animals, all just because they are depressed.

When I was in LA county men's jail, they didn't have bedding. Just metal flat bunks. We asked for sheets, they said "maybe later," but it never happened. We were also denied access to showers. No books. No newspapers. I would rather stare at the wall than watch TV, but they don't have TVs either. We were not allowed outside of our cells, let alone outdoors. The only time I ever saw the sun was when they loaded us onto buses to go to court. I had not been convicted of anything. My crime was carrying a neodymium magnet. After 1 week I was released at court but people fighting bigger charges or awaiting trial were being held under the same conditions indefinitely.

Only once you are convicted of a serious crime, do you get the privilege of going to prison. In California, many inmates have to serve their full prison sentences in county jails due to overcrowding. Thus lesser criminals (drug dealers, shoplifters...) are subject to far worse conditions than someone convicted of murder or sexual assault.

I had never heard that about the psych ward being co-ed. That is absolutely nuts.

The psych ward in jail is such that, if you put a healthy person in there, they would lose their fucking mind. Never, ever, ever tell the police or jail staff that you are feeling suicidal. Really wish someone had told me that before instead of find out the hard way.

 

[indefinitesleep2]

after having antipsychotic medication forced on me in a psychward i dont have a soul anymore i wouldnt be suicidal if i didnt get sectioned, wouldve chose prison over that