[Article] Why Canada’s MAID program to allow those whose main underlying condition is mental illness access is a good thing

[TAW122]

For people who know about Canada's MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying) program, their exclusion of patients whose primary reason for seeking MAID is mental illness ends on March 17th​, 2024 (assuming no further extensions or delays happen). After this exclusionary period has passed/expired, the people whose sole underlying condition is mental illness can be eligible for MAID. Nevertheless, I always support having MAID expanded to include those whose sole underlying reason/condition for seeking MAID is mental illness, and especially after thinking about in more depth. This is a good thing because of two main reasons:

• Mental illnesses and psychological suffering is still "suffering" and it is just as bad (or worse) than physical suffering. Therefore, it should receive the same urgency and validity as that of physical ailments.
  
  
• By allowing MAID to cover those whose only issue is mental illness and psychological suffering, this further takes away any pretext that pro-lifers have regarding mental illnesses and soundness of mind. This means that if pro-lifers like to use the argument that "mental illness equates to unsoundness of mind", then by legalizing and further expanding MAID towards mental illness would help curb the draconian and paternalistic hand of pro-lifers.

With that said, after learning about how pro-lifers still disrespect the wishes of pro-choicers (obviously and not a surprise), especially that of an advance directive or will/statement/wishes list. Even if said wishes and instructions are clearly expressed, carefully deliberated, and laid out, pro-lifers still try to find loop holes and/or other bad faith ways to evade, subvert, and/or otherwise null the agreement. This is unacceptable and I believe that when MAID is expanded to include those whose sole underlying condition is that of mental illness, this would pave the way to give more rights and protection towards those who desperately wish to exit. Once it is legalized, pro-lifers have even less grounds (both moral, ethically, and especially legally) to deny those who wish to go whose sole underlying condition is that of mental illness. Even if they claim "but the patient is mentally ill!" they cannot deny the patient if MAID is expanded to include mental illness as an eligibility for the service.

Now back to the first point about suffering and mental illnesses. As mentioned earlier in my article, all suffering is bad, physical, emotional, and mental/psychological. With that said, I don't think that mental illnesses are not a thing, it is a thing, but more often than not, it is being weaponized by pro-lifers as a way to silence the dissidents (pro-choicers and other marginalized groups throughout history). However, if they can equate that all suffering is bad and that the cessation of suffering is a valid reason for MAID, including those whose sole underlying condition is mental illness, then perhaps they have less weight in trying to deny a patient seeking MAID on grounds of unsoundness of mind. In other words, the first point in simple terms is basically trying to change the mindset of "mental illness and suffering equals unsoundness of mind" to "mental illness and suffering is bad, so even if they aren't considered sound of mind (to the pro-lifers' point of view), ending suffering is more important and compassionate than to suffer indefinitely until time's end."

Let me know your thoughts on this article.

 

[noatacanti2020]

I wish I was Canadian so badly right now

 

[passivethought121]

Wonder how long it'd take if I started the immigration process now...

 

[AllCatsAreGrey]

Thanks for sharing this. It's interesting to follow developments on this.

 

[Ligand]

• Mental illnesses and psychological suffering is still "suffering" and it is just as bad (or worse) than physical suffering. Therefore, it should receive the same urgency and validity as that of physical ailments.

I am in favor of extending euthanasia rights to people with long-standing mental illnesses. That being said, I'm not really sure why people always try to compare mental pain to physical pain. I've had constant chronic pain from various conditions for multiple years now, and I've been depressed and pretty fucking pained emotionally along with that physical pain - I would take the emotional pain any day of the week over the physical pain. I genuinely believe that the people that claim emotional pain is worse have never been in chronic pain before. There's a reason that disabilities and chronic pain conditions were approved for euthanasia before psychological conditions. But I agree that psychological conditions suck ass and are also a good reason to go out.

 

[oneeyed]

Here's what government of Canada's website states on the eligibility...

Safeguards for persons whose natural death is not reasonably foreseeable.
The following procedural safeguards apply to persons' whose natural death is not reasonably foreseeable (*indicates safeguards specific to those requests):

request for MAID must be made in writing: a written request must be signed by one independent witness, and it must be made after the person is informed that they have a "grievous and irremediable medical condition" (a paid professional personal or health care worker can be an independent witness)
two independent doctors or nurse practitioners must provide an assessment and confirm that all of the eligibility requirements are met
*if neither of the two practitioners who assesses eligibility has expertise in the medical condition that is causing the person's suffering, they must consult with a practitioner who has such expertise
the person must be informed that they can withdraw their request at any time, in any manner
*the person must be informed of available and appropriate means to relieve their suffering, including counselling services, mental health and disability support services, community services, and palliative care, and must be offered consultations with professionals who provide those services
*the person and the practitioners must have discussed reasonable and available means to relieve the person's suffering, and agree that the person has seriously considered those means
*the eligibility assessments must take at least 90 days, but this period can be shortened if the person is about to lose the capacity to make health care decisions, as long as both assessments have been completed
immediately before MAID is provided, the practitioner must give the person an opportunity to withdraw their request and ensure that they give express consent

... Yea so there's still going to be some hoops to go through, I know my doctor would never agree to this. Sorry for the format, it was copy and pasted from my phone.

 

[CTBookOfLife]

Not only that, but I've noticed that if people feel they have "a way out," a way to stop the suffering.. they are more likely to attempt to recover. Because the consequences don't seem as scary. It's personally like that for me!

I am in favor of extending euthanasia rights to people with long-standing mental illnesses. That being said, I'm not really sure why people always try to compare mental pain to physical pain. I've had constant chronic pain from various conditions for multiple years now, and I've been depressed and pretty fucking pained emotionally along with that physical pain - I would take the emotional pain any day of the week over the physical pain. I genuinely believe that the people that claim emotional pain is worse have never been in chronic pain before. There's a reason that disabilities and chronic pain conditions were approved for euthanasia before psychological conditions. But I agree that psychological conditions suck ass and are also a good reason to go out.

As someone with severe chronic pain and physical disabilities.. hard disagree.

I have:

EDS (which causes me chronic pain/fatigue, lordosis, scoliosis, severe kyphosis, hip dysplasia, a possible prolapse, and more)

Psoriasis (a very severe type that covers most of my body, and I mean MOST. My whole torso, more than half of my face, inside my ears, my whole scalp and even more painful places, also possible psoriatic arthritis)

possible Lupus (which you can look up and see the shit that comes with)

and MORE.

..and you know what?

I would prefer all of that to the horrific mental anguish I go through.

I have PANS/PANDAS, which causes horrific OCD and mood changes. I recommend you search up a video by Special Books For Special Kids on it, that really shows the true PAIN.

Warning, it has a video of someone having a severe breakdown, complete with self harm (hitting head with fists, very hard, it's actually sickening).

Not only that, but my PANS/PANDAS is the reason I have to suffer with my caretaker. I will not go into detail about that here.

That's just the beginning, though. Runner-up is my CPTSD and C-DID. I was severely abused as a young child, physically, mentally, and sexually. My C-DID hid the last one from me for years, but I recently began having severe rape flashbacks with sensation INCLUDED.


So, I can safely say, as a childhood rape victim with a severe brain condition and more than 1000 alters.. people who say physical pain is worse than mental pain have obviously never felt THIS.

 

[Ligand]

Not only that, but I've noticed that if people feel they have "a way out," a way to stop the suffering.. they are more likely to attempt to recover. Because the consequences don't seem as scary. It's personally like that for me!

As someone with severe chronic pain and physical disabilities.. hard disagree.

I have:

EDS (which causes me chronic pain/fatigue, lordosis, scoliosis, severe kyphosis, hip dysplasia, a possible prolapse, and more)

Psoriasis (a very severe type that covers most of my body, and I mean MOST. My whole torso, more than half of my face, inside my ears, my whole scalp and even more painful places, also possible psoriatic arthritis)

possible Lupus (which you can look up and see the shit that comes with)

and MORE.

..and you know what?

I would prefer all of that to the horrific mental anguish I go through.

I have PANS/PANDAS, which causes horrific OCD and mood changes. I recommend you search up a video by Special Books For Special Kids on it, that really shows the true PAIN.

Warning, it has a video of someone having a severe breakdown, complete with self harm (hitting head with fists, very hard, it's actually sickening).

Not only that, but my PANS/PANDAS is the reason I have to suffer with my caretaker. I will not go into detail about that here.

That's just the beginning, though. Runner-up is my CPTSD and C-DID. I was severely abused as a young child, physically, mentally, and sexually. My C-DID hid the last one from me for years, but I recently began having severe rape flashbacks with sensation INCLUDED.


So, I can safely say, as a childhood rape victim with a severe brain condition and more than 1000 alters.. people who say physical pain is worse than mental pain have obviously never felt THIS.

I don't agree with your conclusion, but there's no way to respond to that comment without looking like a huge asshole.

Your childhood sounds horrible, I hope you're getting some psychological support irl.

 

[ClownWorld2023]

Looks like Canada is doing better than my country.

Is permission from a GP / doctor required too?

 

[WaffleWoman]

I was unaware that MAID was opening up to those with mental health issues happy to be in country right now

Looks like Canada is doing better than my country.

Is permission from a GP / doctor required too?

Yea thats been a part of MAID before they decided to take this change

 

[ClownWorld2023]

I was unaware that MAID was opening up to those with mental health issues happy to be in country right now

Yea thats been a part of MAID before they decided to take this change

So if you in theory qualify for MAID, can the GP still reject you?

 

[FuneralCry]

Any kind of legalised assisted dying will always be a good thing and can only be a good thing no matter what as after all nobody can suffer from not existing, it's compassionate as it's the prevention of senseless and unnecessary suffering, it's preventing people from dying on their own terms in barbaric ways. I very much envy those who are able to die in such a way as it's not even legalised where I live at all which is very inhumane.

 

[WaffleWoman]

So if you in theory qualify for MAID, can the GP still reject you?

I think? If I understand it correctly multiple people need to sign off on it before you can qualify for MAID

 

[TAW122]

I wish I was Canadian so badly right now

I do too, and there are times where I wished I wasn't an US citizen....

Wonder how long it'd take if I started the immigration process now...

It could take years to become a permanent resident and eventually citizenship, and the pathway is not necessarily an easy one.

Thanks for sharing this. It's interesting to follow developments on this.

I try to keep up when I can, and March 2024 is less than an year ago, albeit far from present day.

I am in favor of extending euthanasia rights to people with long-standing mental illnesses. That being said, I'm not really sure why people always try to compare mental pain to physical pain. I've had constant chronic pain from various conditions for multiple years now, and I've been depressed and pretty fucking pained emotionally along with that physical pain - I would take the emotional pain any day of the week over the physical pain. I genuinely believe that the people that claim emotional pain is worse have never been in chronic pain before. There's a reason that disabilities and chronic pain conditions were approved for euthanasia before psychological conditions. But I agree that psychological conditions suck ass and are also a good reason to go out.

I believe the reason people compare mental pain to physical pain because suffering is still suffering and while the pain is different, they are both valid forms of pain and suffering.

Here's what government of Canada's website states on the eligibility...

Safeguards for persons whose natural death is not reasonably foreseeable.
The following procedural safeguards apply to persons' whose natural death is not reasonably foreseeable (*indicates safeguards specific to those requests):

request for MAID must be made in writing: a written request must be signed by one independent witness, and it must be made after the person is informed that they have a "grievous and irremediable medical condition" (a paid professional personal or health care worker can be an independent witness)
two independent doctors or nurse practitioners must provide an assessment and confirm that all of the eligibility requirements are met
*if neither of the two practitioners who assesses eligibility has expertise in the medical condition that is causing the person's suffering, they must consult with a practitioner who has such expertise
the person must be informed that they can withdraw their request at any time, in any manner
*the person must be informed of available and appropriate means to relieve their suffering, including counselling services, mental health and disability support services, community services, and palliative care, and must be offered consultations with professionals who provide those services
*the person and the practitioners must have discussed reasonable and available means to relieve the person's suffering, and agree that the person has seriously considered those means
*the eligibility assessments must take at least 90 days, but this period can be shortened if the person is about to lose the capacity to make health care decisions, as long as both assessments have been completed
immediately before MAID is provided, the practitioner must give the person an opportunity to withdraw their request and ensure that they give express consent

... Yea so there's still going to be some hoops to go through, I know my doctor would never agree to this. Sorry for the format, it was copy and pasted from my phone.

No problem about the format, I understood every point with regards to eligibility. It will be hard to gain approval, but the fact that there are providers who will give the greenlight and that it is a legalized, formal process means that people have a way out should things become unbearable.

Any kind of legalised assisted dying will always be a good thing and can only be a good thing no matter what as after all nobody can suffer from not existing, it's compassionate as it's the prevention of senseless and unnecessary suffering, it's preventing people from dying on their own terms in barbaric ways. I very much envy those who are able to die in such a way as it's not even legalised where I live at all which is very inhumane.

Agreed, absolutely. I hope the US does someday follow Canada's example, but I highly doubt that may happen in my lifetime or anytime soon...

I think? If I understand it correctly multiple people need to sign off on it before you can qualify for MAID

Yes I believe that is true along with making multiple requests for MAID up until the last moment (final confirmation/consent).

 

[doneforlife]

As long as there is any medical intervention ( read : human intervention), your struggle will not be judged based on your threshold of bearing pain , it will always be judged through the examiner's faith based lens.
A rational mind will never ask for suicide is what has been propagated till now . So if there is no physical illness and someone still requests euthanasia, it in itself is indication of mental illness. So why would one need a GP/ doctor? What for exactly?

 

[Life'sA6itch]

For people who know about Canada's MAID (Medical Assistance in Dying) program, their exclusion of patients whose primary reason for seeking MAID is mental illness ends on March 17th​, 2024 (assuming no further extensions or delays happen). After this exclusionary period has passed/expired, the people whose sole underlying condition is mental illness can be eligible for MAID. Nevertheless, I always support having MAID expanded to include those whose sole underlying reason/condition for seeking MAID is mental illness, and especially after thinking about in more depth. This is a good thing because of two main reasons:

• Mental illnesses and psychological suffering is still "suffering" and it is just as bad (or worse) than physical suffering. Therefore, it should receive the same urgency and validity as that of physical ailments.
  
  
• By allowing MAID to cover those whose only issue is mental illness and psychological suffering, this further takes away any pretext that pro-lifers have regarding mental illnesses and soundness of mind. This means that if pro-lifers like to use the argument that "mental illness equates to unsoundness of mind", then by legalizing and further expanding MAID towards mental illness would help curb the draconian and paternalistic hand of pro-lifers.

With that said, after learning about how pro-lifers still disrespect the wishes of pro-choicers (obviously and not a surprise), especially that of an advance directive or will/statement/wishes list. Even if said wishes and instructions are clearly expressed, carefully deliberated, and laid out, pro-lifers still try to find loop holes and/or other bad faith ways to evade, subvert, and/or otherwise null the agreement. This is unacceptable and I believe that when MAID is expanded to include those whose sole underlying condition is that of mental illness, this would pave the way to give more rights and protection towards those who desperately wish to exit. Once it is legalized, pro-lifers have even less grounds (both moral, ethically, and especially legally) to deny those who wish to go whose sole underlying condition is that of mental illness. Even if they claim "but the patient is mentally ill!" they cannot deny the patient if MAID is expanded to include mental illness as an eligibility for the service.

Now back to the first point about suffering and mental illnesses. As mentioned earlier in my article, all suffering is bad, physical, emotional, and mental/psychological. With that said, I don't think that mental illnesses are not a thing, it is a thing, but more often than not, it is being weaponized by pro-lifers as a way to silence the dissidents (pro-choicers and other marginalized groups throughout history). However, if they can equate that all suffering is bad and that the cessation of suffering is a valid reason for MAID, including those whose sole underlying condition is mental illness, then perhaps they have less weight in trying to deny a patient seeking MAID on grounds of unsoundness of mind. In other words, the first point in simple terms is basically trying to change the mindset of "mental illness and suffering equals unsoundness of mind" to "mental illness and suffering is bad, so even if they aren't considered sound of mind (to the pro-lifers' point of view), ending suffering is more important and compassionate than to suffer indefinitely until time's end."

Let me know your thoughts on this article.

I've been watching this for a couple of years and wishing I was Canadian. I think expanding it to include mental illness is a good thing but it should have been included from the start. Think of all the people suffering needlessly, absolutely needlessly.

 

[MrDarkness]

honestly i think its kinda shit ngl, clearly the government has given up on trying to improve our system, took me 9 months and one attempt to finally get diagnosed, I'm still trying to find what meds work with me, this shouldn't been an issue, even though i want to die, i still wish i could get out of this shithole, our government doesnt care for us, and rather have us die, then fix us

 

[DEATH IS FREEDOM]

Canada has good rules for euthanasia. This euthanasia should be available in all countries. Of course, antinatalism and euthanasia will prevent new suffering and end current suffering. This is the solution to the problem of human suffering.

 

[TAW122]

As long as there is any medical intervention ( read : human intervention), your struggle will not be judged based on your threshold of bearing pain , it will always be judged through the examiner's faith based lens.
A rational mind will never ask for suicide is what has been propagated till now . So if there is no physical illness and someone still requests euthanasia, it in itself is indication of mental illness. So why would one need a GP/ doctor? What for exactly?

Yes this is a problem and when MAID expands to cover those who are suffering from solely mental illnesses, it will remove one more (major) obstacle preventing people from seeking relief from suffering. The faith based lens is definitely problematic and even though many guidelines warn against prejudices and biases, they still happen and even more, harder to prove... But the expansion of maid is a step in the right direction.

I've been watching this for a couple of years and wishing I was Canadian. I think expanding it to include mental illness is a good thing but it should have been included from the start. Think of all the people suffering needlessly, absolutely needlessly.

I agree, it should have been in the start and then there would not need to be many amendments, lawsuits, constitutional challenges, and more... On the flipside, when MAID first became a thing in 2015 (for only terminally ill patients), I could see people just outright rejecting it if it was TOO expansive at first. Therefore for really sensitive (but yet VERY important) legislation on death and assisted suicide, policymakers consider that it is better to slowly roll it out in phases rather than ALL at once, otherwise the populace will reject it from the start.

honestly i think its kinda shit ngl, clearly the government has given up on trying to improve our system, took me 9 months and one attempt to finally get diagnosed, I'm still trying to find what meds work with me, this shouldn't been an issue, even though i want to die, i still wish i could get out of this shithole, our government doesnt care for us, and rather have us die, then fix us

I'm sorry to hear about your predicament and I do believe that in a compassionate world, we should have both. MAID for all people who have decided life and continued existence is not worth the suffering/struggle, but also have support services for those who wish to continue living.

Canada has good rules for euthanasia. This euthanasia should be available in all countries. Of course, antinatalism and euthanasia will prevent new suffering and end current suffering. This is the solution to the problem of human suffering.

Yes I agree. Also, the last sentence is true too and it is something that I've come to as a conclusion even as far back as early 2020.

 

[MBG]

I've seen articles say it comes March 17, and others, like this one, that say March 27. Either way it's less than 3 months to go!

Canadian who tried to kill himself backs legal euthanasia

On March 27, Canada's law around medically assisted dying is set to expand eligibility to people solely suffering from mental illness.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TAW122]

I've seen articles say it comes March 17, and others, like this one, that say March 27. Either way it's less than 3 months to go!

Canadian who tried to kill himself backs legal euthanasia

On March 27, Canada's law around medically assisted dying is set to expand eligibility to people solely suffering from mental illness.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Assuming that nothing delays or further postpones or extends the deadline (which wouldn't surprise me if it did since pro-lifers always try to find every excuse under the sun to do so), then yes I believe the expansion will apply to mental illnesses. With that said, I hope there isn't any delays or any other setbacks that pushes the expansion to be delayed indefinitely and that any expansion to become more accessible (to more people other than those with serious irremediable health conditions or death within the foreseeable future) is always a win in my book.