Discussion Are you self-aware? Does it make you uncomfortable?

[livefreeorpeace]

I'm a ruthless self-critic, I don't remember a time as an adult that I haven't been. I believe that this stems from a strict upbringing. In the household I grew up in, even the smallest of mistakes were met with the most swift and harsh punishments (this includes the boilerplate plate trifecta: mental, physical, and emotional abuse and escalated into being locked in my room months at a time, and severe physical abuse, hospitalizations, broken bones, stitches, Et al.)

Hold tight with me here (this is no sob story), I'm going to draw this out to a finer point.

As awful as that experience was (my childhood), it led to traits in me that most, if asked would say are desirable. I have a compulsion for: punctuality, hygiene, sense of urgency, attention to detail, time management, Et al. My brain will not let me off the hook in regards to any of these 'character traits' tbh it's exhausting, and I believe it has a lot to do with my diminishing mental state. (and the associated problems that come with that: insomnia, anxiety, depression, Et al.) These traits also cause me problems amongst my lateral co-workers. They feel as if I'm trying to outdo, or compete with them, I'm not. I'm simply being myself, a product of the incentives created in the environment I grew up in. (Do right, or get fucked up, basically)

This has lead me ask myself is 'integrity' a vice? At least in my case? Have any of you ever felt this way? I'd love to hear what you think.

And please do take this wherever you would like, it's a huge subject for which no good confines exist. I could go on longer, but this is already a wall text, and not everyone enjoys a long read.

 

[PursuitofWonder]

I'm sorry that you have to deal with this and hope you can it can improve during however long you feel you have left. For me I feel self aware in a different way. I feel that I understand my condition and thoughts pretty well and that can be both good and bad. In the way it's good, I can very easily convey what I'm experiencing to friends and doctors. When it's bad, I am self aware that I know what the doc wants to hear about me so I'll lie and just tell them that. I think self criticism is something we all struggle with to some degree and it can be so hard. One my depression really hit I basically lost the ability to use self criticism.

 

[livefreeorpeace]

Thank you so much. So what jumped out to me was the part about you telling the doctor what he wants to hear. This is something I still struggle with, I 'coached' myself out of manipulating people with language years ago, (although I still have my slips) that I can say with confidence, is a vice. I've been fucking up recently, and depression aside I'm still beating myself up over everything. Your cloud, in my world has a silver lining. Funny how things work out like that sometimes. And thanks again, you came at the subject from an angle different than mine, and that's what I was hoping for.

 

[awfullife]

I'm a ruthless self-critic, I don't remember a time as an adult that I haven't been. I believe that this stems from a strict upbringing. In the household I grew up in, even the smallest of mistakes were met with the most swift and harsh punishments (this includes the boilerplate plate trifecta: mental, physical, and emotional abuse and escalated into being locked in my room months at a time, and severe physical abuse, hospitalizations, broken bones, stitches, Et al.)

Hold tight with me here (this is no sob story), I'm going to draw this out to a finer point.

As awful as that experience was (my childhood), it led to traits in me that most, if asked would say are desirable. I have a compulsion for: punctuality, hygiene, sense of urgency, attention to detail, time management, Et al. My brain will not let me off the hook in regards to any of these 'character traits' tbh it's exhausting, and I believe it has a lot to do with my diminishing mental state (and the associated problems that come with that: insomnia, anxiety, depression, Et al.) These traits also cause me problems amongst my lateral co-workers. They feel as if I'm trying to outdo, or compete with them, I'm not. I'm simply being myself, a product of the incentives created in the environment I grew up in. (Do right, or get fucked up, basically)

This has lead me ask myself is 'integrity' a vice? At least in my case? Have you any of you ever felt this way? I'd love to hear what you think.

And please do take this wherever you would like, it's a huge subject for which no good confines exist. I could go on longer, but this is already a wall text, and not everyone enjoys a long read.

Its interesting that I have very similar personality characteristics as you without the awful childhood abuse. I'm uber competitive with my coworkers I think out of survival instinct and to stand out for attention.

Integrity is what I am lacking in. I have none. I would fuck over someone in a heartbeat for money or to get ahead and have done so in my life. This causes me pain and struggle, but not as much pain and struggle as being poor and being a financial failure.

Greed is a bitch but I have it. I hope ayahuasca can cure it.

 

[Chupacabra 44]

Seemingly, it might be a minor point in your post, but I wouldn't think twice about your coworkers. In business, this incorporates the concept of "rate buster".

 

[livefreeorpeace]

Its interesting that I have very similar personality characteristics as you without the awful childhood abuse. I'm uber competitive with my coworkers I think out of survival instinct and to stand out for attention.

Integrity is what I am lacking in. I have none. I would fuck over someone in a heartbeat for money or to get ahead and have done so in my life. This causes me pain and struggle, but not as much pain and struggle as being poor and being a financial failure.

Greed is a bitch but I have it. I hope ayahuasca can cure it.

I used to be the same way when I was a younger man, scandalous is what we called it in those days. When I hit my 30s something 'switched' in me, my personality became more subdued. When I see dudes that I would formally compete with now, it's like looking in a mirror. I just see myself when I was their age, and I want to take care of them, some fatherly instinct type of thing. I don't know it's weird, the problem I'm having now is my mediocracy blows what they call 'hard work' out of the water. They're probably lucky that they don't have to compete with me, but I don't hold it over them or anything. Previously though I totally would, I'd be talking mad shit, trying to getting to their head and such.

Seemingly, it might be a minor point in your post, but I wouldn't think twice about your coworkers. In business, this incorporates the concept of "rate buster".

You're not wrong, as much as the economist in me screams out to think of these people as economic units, I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm aware others can, but I wonder if wether or not it's a vice, to tie in back to the OP

I used to be the same way when I was a younger man, scandalous is what we called it in those days. When I hit my 30s something 'switched' in me, my personality became more subdued. When I see dudes that I would formally compete with now, it's like looking in a mirror. I just see myself when I was their age, and I want to take care of them, some fatherly instinct type of thing. I don't know it's weird, the problem I'm having now is my mediocracy blows what they call 'hard work' out of the water. They're probably lucky that they don't have to compete with me, but I don't hold it over them or anything. Previously though I totally would, I'd be talking mad shit, trying to getting to their head and such.

You're not wrong, as much as the economist in me screams out to think of these people as economic units, I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm aware others can, but I wonder if wether or not it's a vice, to tie in back to the OP

*Integrity to Austrian economics, in this example.

 

[Deformationalplagio]

Im very very self aware man i dont even go outside because of it. I have seen the gulag more then my local store

 

[NeverGoodEnuff]

"Is integrity a vice?"

Now that is an interesting thought! I have been told I am too smart, too much of a perfectionist, that I always have to be better than everybody else, and "You really think you're smarter, don't you." No!

I don't compete against others. Rather, I compete against myself. I can do better is my mantra. Be the best that I can be. Failure is not an option. I never understood why others liked me at first but over time, avoided me. I just realized why a few years ago.

Some of my siblings are the same way. A brother told me not long ago that I should lower my standards. Somehow, that stuck in my mind. And I have actually done it in small ways that do not affect others. I feel some slight guilt. And some relief.

Is that a vice? Interesting.

 

[autisticalex]

No it's one of the problems with an autistic brain. Lack of self awareness.

I would say it is one of my main problems. Although I have done drugs like weed and I'm not sure if I became painfully self aware or just paranoid...

I would say that ecstasy and also lsd and shrooms made me more self aware too, able to pick up on hidden social conventions I usually missed and have Eureka moments.

Imo it's really hard to go throug life with no self awareness and not picking up on stuff like body language and facial expressions of others so you really don't understand where you stand.

Then again ignorance is bliss

 

[livefreeorpeace]

"Is integrity a vice?"

Now that is an interesting thought! I have been told I am too smart, too much of a perfectionist, that I always have to be better than everybody else, and "You really think you're smarter, don't you." No!

I don't compete against others. Rather, I compete against myself. I can do better is my mantra. Be the best that I can be. Failure is not an option. I never understood why others liked me at first but over time, avoided me. I just realized why a few years ago.

Some of my siblings are the same way. A brother told me not long ago that I should lower my standards. Somehow, that stuck in my mind. And I have actually done it in small ways that do not affect others. I feel some slight guilt. And some relief.

Is that a vice? Interesting.

"Is integrity a vice?"

Now that is an interesting thought! I have been told I am too smart, too much of a perfectionist, that I always have to be better than everybody else, and "You really think you're smarter, don't you." No!

I don't compete against others. Rather, I compete against myself. I can do better is my mantra. Be the best that I can be. Failure is not an option. I never understood why others liked me at first but over time, avoided me. I just realized why a few years ago.

Some of my siblings are the same way. A brother told me not long ago that I should lower my standards. Somehow, that stuck in my mind. And I have actually done it in small ways that do not affect others. I feel some slight guilt. And some relief.

Is that a vice? Interesting.

I never understood why others liked me at first but over time, avoided me. I just realized why a few years ago.

This has forever been my experience. And I appreciate your response it was well thought out and sincere.

No it's one of the problems with an autistic brain. Lack of self awareness.

I would say it is one of my main problems. Although I have done drugs like weed and I'm not sure if I became painfully self aware or just paranoid...

I would say that ecstasy and also lsd and shrooms made me more self aware too, able to pick up on hidden social conventions I usually missed and have Eureka moments.

Imo it's really hard to go throug life with no self awareness and not picking up on stuff like body language and facial expressions of others so you really don't understand where you stand.

Then again ignorance is bliss

Thank you. And let me ask, are you having a harder time picking up on social cues because of the mask wearing these days? If you don't mind me asking of course, I've been having a really tough time with it personally.

 

[signifying nothing]

I'm a ruthless self-critic, I don't remember a time as an adult that I haven't been. I believe that this stems from a strict upbringing. In the household I grew up in, even the smallest of mistakes were met with the most swift and harsh punishments (this includes the boilerplate plate trifecta: mental, physical, and emotional abuse and escalated into being locked in my room months at a time, and severe physical abuse, hospitalizations, broken bones, stitches, Et al.)

Hold tight with me here (this is no sob story), I'm going to draw this out to a finer point.

As awful as that experience was (my childhood), it led to traits in me that most, if asked would say are desirable. I have a compulsion for: punctuality, hygiene, sense of urgency, attention to detail, time management, Et al. My brain will not let me off the hook in regards to any of these 'character traits' tbh it's exhausting, and I believe it has a lot to do with my diminishing mental state. (and the associated problems that come with that: insomnia, anxiety, depression, Et al.) These traits also cause me problems amongst my lateral co-workers. They feel as if I'm trying to outdo, or compete with them, I'm not. I'm simply being myself, a product of the incentives created in the environment I grew up in. (Do right, or get fucked up, basically)

This has lead me ask myself is 'integrity' a vice? At least in my case? Have any of you ever felt this way? I'd love to hear what you think.

And please do take this wherever you would like, it's a huge subject for which no good confines exist. I could go on longer, but this is already a wall text, and not everyone enjoys a long read.

How are you defining integrity here? I honestly don't see how you get to integrity from what you describe. To me it seems your traits have been built from a foundation of fear more than anything. Am I missing something here?

 

[NeverGoodEnuff]

Integrity: Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.

An employer hires and pays you to do certain work. You must, therefore, do it the "right" way. With the "right" attitude. Be there on time, dress appropriately, never take off unless approved in advance. Never lie. Always be respectful. Never arrive late or leave early or take a long lunch break.

It is a standard that is difficult to uphold. It makes you unpopular with peers whose standards are different.

It doesn't matter what foundation (fear or otherwise) it is based upon. Employers, or anybody that wants something from you, love it. You will be the first one they will call to do whatever because saying "No" is not an option and they know your performance will be better than good and you are trustworthy, ethical and moral.

 

[livefreeorpeace]

How are you defining integrity here? I honestly don't see how you get to integrity from what you describe. To me it seems your traits have been built from a foundation of fear more than anything. Am I missing something here?

Seemingly, it might be a minor point in your post, but I wouldn't think twice about your coworkers. In business, this incorporates the concept of "rate buster"

You're not wrong, as much as the economist in me screams out to think of these people as economic units, I just can't bring myself to do it. I'm aware others can, but I wonder if wether o

*Integrity to Austrian economics, in this example

This is an example given in the thread, just to keep this as succinct as possible, this bad boy already reads like a book. I'd say Oxford's second definition of integrity works best in this context, it's as follows: 2. The the state of being whole and undivided.

Integrity: Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.

An employer hires and pays you to do certain work. You must, therefore, do it the "right" way. With the "right" attitude. Be there on time, dress appropriately, never take off unless approved in advance. Never lie. Always be respectful. Never arrive late or leave early or take a long lunch break.

It is a standard that is difficult to uphold. It makes you unpopular with peers whose standards are different.

It doesn't matter what foundation (fear or otherwise) it is based upon. Employers, or anybody that wants something from you, love it. You will be the first one they will call to do whatever because saying "No" is not an option and they know your performance will be better than good and you are trustworthy, ethical and moral.

Well done, absolutely. Couldn't of said it better myself.

 

[signifying nothing]

What you're describing is conformity, not integrity. Integrity is about the moral and ethical principles and values by which someone lives.

Wiki link

 

[livefreeorpeace]

What you're describing is conformity, not integrity. Integrity is about the moral and ethical principles and values by which someone lives.

Wiki link

You seem to view the question, in what I would call a binary way. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. 'conformity' can certainly substitute for 'integrity' in this case. (Although I would issue caution about conflating the two) really thought, I just think we are splitting hairs.

What you're describing is conformity, not integrity. Integrity is about the moral and ethical principles and values by which someone lives.

Wiki link

Oxford's second definition of integrity works best in this context, it's as follows: 2. The the state of being whole and undivided

*Is it a vice to be whole and undivided? I understand that this is vague and opaque, but we are dealing with a non-tangible here. All definitions aside, integrity, of course is going to mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people.

 

[signifying nothing]

Well, I am sorry for your diminishing mental state and I hope you can find a way to overcome the problems you are having. The rest is by the by.

 

[Conker]

Intensely so, it's a double-edged sword and yet I wouldn't trade it for willful ignorance.

Just trading one hell for another although at least this side can be a lot funner.