Discussion Are "Unknown Unknowns" what's stopping you?

[profoundexperience]

Donald Rumsfeld (USA's defense secretary under George W. Bush)... for whatever else he was... was a bit of a poet/philosopher. He famously said the following in 2002 regarding the Iraq War:

Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.

But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don't know we don't know. And if one looks throughout the history of our country and other free countries, it is the latter category that tends to be the difficult ones.

I think this applies well to my resistance to "just doing it" (ctb) = my doubt and fear of the unknown.

Do you experience that too? And, if so, do you have any tips/countermeasures for it?

 

[NodusTollens]

Donald Rumsfeld (USA's defense secretary under George W. Bush)... for whatever else he was... was a bit of a poet/philosopher. He famously said the following in 2002 regarding the Iraq War:


I think this applies well to my resistance to "just doing it" (ctb) = my doubt and fear of the unknown.

Do you experience that too? And, if so, do you have any tips/countermeasures for it?

That's understandable, the fear of the unknown is something that halts a lot of people in their tracks.

Movies like "The Discovery," tend to highlight what things could be like if we knew what comes after death. But being uncertain is normal.

 

[Life_and_Death]

well you have your "obvious unknowns" like ill just leave this here. you cant see the future so what will happen is unknown but its also predictable, dont leave that there.

then you have your "wont know until we get there unknowns" like death. a lot of people find solace in believing in god and the afterlife.

thats about all the advice i have though, i struggle with just about everything but that. loved ones, my stuff, my body, things like that. i almost died once when i was about 7, even then i didnt believe in god and since then have come to my own satisfying ideas about things. i dont advise dying to get over your fear of it btw, just thats what happened to me. you know what, stick with my god advice lol

 

[profoundexperience]

Movies like "The Discovery," tend to highlight what things could be like if we knew what comes after death.

Yeah, that was a trip: So many people deciding to suicide to move-on to their "next life". I need to rewatch it. It's on Netflix.

i almost died once when i was about 7, even then i didnt believe in god ... i dont advise dying to get over your fear of it btw, you know what, stick with my god advice lol

So, your brush with death helped give you confidence...?

Unfortunately I don't think I could get myself to believe in god... even if I wanted to. There'd have to be some extraordinary, repeatable evidence that would have to come...

 

[Life_and_Death]

So, your brush with death helped give you confidence...?

not exactly, "knowing" what comes after helped me be more at peace with it. its easier to talk yourself through something you know rather then something youre walking blindly into.

 

[profoundexperience]

its easier to talk yourself through something you know rather then something youre walking blindly into.

Well said.

 

[AutoTap]

I'm fuxking terrified of unknowns it's huge part of my anxiety. I hate walking into something where I don't know what's going to happen as it causes me to be anxious. its why I can't hang. I get to scared and can't go all the way.. frustrating

 

[profoundexperience]

I'm fuxking terrified of unknowns ... I hate walking into something where I don't know what's going to happen

Exactly! The ambiguity of it sucks...

If I knew for sure it was "lights-out, forever"... I'd be gone within ~10 minutes from right now.

 

[AutoTap]

Exactly! The ambiguity of it sucks...

If I knew for sure it was "lights-out, forever"... I'd be gone within ~10 minutes from right now.

Yeh, that and it'd be nice to know what actually happens after death. I'm always scared some religion is real and I'll get sent to hell or something.

 

[neverever]

Exactly! The ambiguity of it sucks...

If I knew for sure it was "lights-out, forever"... I'd be gone within ~10 minutes from right now.

So would I, @profoundexperience.

 

[bov]

a bit of a poet/philosopher

lol

 

[NodusTollens]

Yeah, that was a trip: So many people deciding to suicide to move-on to their "next life". I need to rewatch it. It's on Netflix.

Yup, that's where I saw it. After watching it I couldn't help but wonder, how that would play out IRL. If that would be the event that finally kicked the GOV into action about stepping up MH supports

 

[AutoTap]

Yup, that's where I saw it. After watching it I couldn't help but wonder, how that would play out IRL. If that would be the event that finally kicked the GOV into action about stepping up MH supports

I must be behind what happen/ what I miss?

 

[NodusTollens]

I must be behind what happen/ what I miss?

The Discovery is a movie on Netflix, it's premise it that a scientist definitively proved there was an afterlife & the films follows the aftermath of his discovery.

 

[AutoTap]

The Discovery is a movie on Netflix, it's premise it that a scientist definitively proved there was an afterlife & the films follows the aftermath of his discovery.

Ooh! Interesting I'll have to check it out thank you.

 

[profoundexperience]

a bit of a poet/philosopher.

lol

Yeah, I know right?

I would agree with the man's policies about 0%... but there's no doubt he was clever.

Someone even compiled a whole book of his poetry/philosophy...

Pieces of Intelligence: The Existential Poetry of Donal…

Until now, the poetry of Secretary of Defense Donald Ru…

www.goodreads.com

There's even some of the poems that have been "set to music"... Wish I could find a clip... it's hilarious!

 

[Partial-Elf]

For me it's the known unknowns that stop me:

• Potential failure and disability
• Impact on parents

nothing else is of much consequence to me. My plan doesn't leave open the possibility of being found or of equipment failure, so as far as unknown unknowns... it's literally have to be a meteor striking my apartment or something

 

[foxdie]

The unknown outcome of what would happen if I failed is a big thing stopping me. All the consequences that would follow not the least of which could be brain injury. The idea of having to endure this reality with my mind lost kinda terrifies me. It could be better or worse, I suppose I can't really know.

I guess if I really examine it, I'm somewhat anxious of what comes after but if it's just nothingness I'm good with that. Dreamless sleep is when I'm most at peace. But not being able to know that is a source of anxiety for sure.

 

[profoundexperience]

what would happen if I failed is a big thing stopping me. All the consequences that would follow not the least of which could be brain injury.

Yes. Suicide is so unique an action... in so many ways:

1. It's a risky "medical procedure"...
2. That is taboo and shamed by most other people...
3. That we preform on ourselves...
4. Most likely alone...
5. And are unable to practice it (other than mock) = it's not like sports or learning to type where practice can feedback to improvements...
6. And can guess, but not absolutely know the result.

It's no surprise the agonizing we must do over it.

but if it's just nothingness I'm good with that. Dreamless sleep is when I'm most at peace.

I'm so close to being sure that's exactly what it is.

Yet, human beings have invented so many stories... impossible to be sure.

One thing's for sure: Those stories about it -- that are not true... that are lies -- are evil. Because, look at all the things they make us do....

 

[Manford]

Didn't he claim Saddam having WMDs was a known known ? I guess he didn't know what he thought he knew, which would in fact make it an unknown unknown. Either that or he knowingly lied.

 

[foxdie]

Didn't he claim Saddam having WMDs was a known known ? I guess he didn't know what he thought he knew, which would in fact make it an unknown unknown. Either that or he knowingly lied.

Lying? He would never...

 

[TAW122]

I don't think so, I have my personal and external reasons for doing so, not so much due to the fear of the unknown. Only recently have I decided to stick around because I have some future (important) work to do, one of which is championing the right-to-die and similar pro-choice movements.

 

[profoundexperience]

The Discovery is a movie on Netflix, it's premise it that a scientist definitively proved there was an afterlife & the films follows the aftermath

After watching it I couldn't help but wonder, how that would play out IRL.

Well -- for forking sure -- people would be a hell of a lot nicer to each other.

Of course, it could go the other way too... you could literally "get away with murder" by just suiciding afterwards.

It'd suck to go through childhood over-and-over though...

 

[NodusTollens]

Well -- for forking sure -- people would be a hell of a lot nicer to each other.

Of course, it could go the other way too... you could literally "get away with murder" by just suiciding afterwards.

It'd suck to go through childhood over-and-over though...

Ahaha, you're right about that & It opened me questions about what the afterlife would look like.

Do we all "get in?" Does it follow Christian ideology? Is it reliving past memories?

 

[Kat!]

I don't know, I am very worried about a multitude of things. Anxiety may bend my ideas or create new ones off of existing stories but I can never seem to get the details right.
Out of all the things that we can make up fictionally, nothing is scarier than real life, and certainly not death.

 

[profoundexperience]

Out of all the things that we can make up fictionally, nothing is scarier than real life, and certainly not death.

Very well said...

For me -- this is just so much suffering & just so utterly pointless* -- that it becomes a case of, "What have you got to lose?"

And (again for me) there's always the issue: IT'S GONNA HAPPEN ANYWAY... "So, why not now?"

* Unless one counts the evolved, emergent "purpose of life" which is mere survival... both of the individual... and genes through reproduction. But this is ABSOLUTELY NOT a well thought-out, intelligent purpose.