Apparently following social norms is more important than quality of life

[Marktheghost]

Why is society so obsessed with following their social norms, even when their social norms are causing unnecessary harm? I met a student nurse last year who I got on well with. I asked at the hospital about who had got contact details for the student nurses, intending to ask them to ask for the student nurse's permission to give me her e-mail address. I just got fobbed off with excuses or whatever and nobody would even tell me that.

So I asked my GP in the end. She says she can't help me because you can't make friends with a student nurse and can't make friends with someone younger than you; you've got to fit in with what's considered normal.

I'm suicidally lonely, the student nurse is training for a job that's all about helping people, but we're not allowed to even contact each other by e-mail, because fitting in with what's normal and following social norms is more important than making people's lives bearable; so I've got to miss out on what could be a great friendship just for the sake of society's social norms!

 

[Mixo]

How exactly did you meet? Were you a patient and she was helping you in the hospital...or?

 

[RC90]

I worked in a strict environment workplace, we would be trained on not to take anyone's request for an email or cell number, however not to disturb the person we were allowed to take it from a person and then dispose of it. But I know some colleagues that actually kept that piece of paper and contacted the Person.

 

[mapletree]

I mean how did you guys meet, were you a patient or did you guys just see each other in some other context? If you were a patient of hers somehow I think it's not unreasonable for her superiors to not want you to try to have a relationship with her outside of the work environment or give out her personal information. Some of the boundaries can be there for a reason, it depends on the context

 

[schopenh]

In your particular example, I can see why people refused. If we made it standard that people could formally request personal contact details from healthcare staff, the staff would be put on unnecessary social pressure, no matter how minor, to agree. Despite this, I think the majority of the time, they would say no, and this would upset the patient - especially if they have poor mental health. I think this is a good circumstance where we have deemed it inappropriate to start sparking up relationships - especially because I think the 'sparking up' would be extremely one-sided. The healthcare-patient relationship is rather unique*. I wouldn't consider you being harmed here, 99+% of people would not fixate on something like this and get upset by it, so I think you need to try deal with this.

*Edit: Just editing in to say that these people take care of you when you are extremely vulnerable even though they are not friends or family. Sometimes they do a better job than your friends and family!

 

[BrokenLine]

Sorry if this comes over a bit heavy handed. I think it would be considered very unprofessional them asking the student nurse that it could be seen as putting undue pressure on her just by asking.

Sorry to say this but the student nurse her well being is the only thing they should be considering here, she may happily give her email but they wont ask, cant ask.
Now you could ask her that, but not a colleague her boss or superior who should. Think if it made her uncomfortable she may quit or the person who asked fired. I promise they also wouldn't want her worried that any patient might ask the same thing. Sadly in this world their job is considered over that both a good and bad thing when you leave the room.

Yes shes chosen a profession that means helping people but she must keep professional and personal relationships separate, for their own mental health. She may also get into trouble if she did.

I know someone who's been a ICU pediatric nurse she never talks about work, EVER. We have spoken about everything but that one thing I know never to ask.
I really get where you're coming from I feel the same way being lonely, if it was possible I would have asked for two over the years.

(Edit sorry if i got the context of how you two met wrong I was thinking she worked with you in a professional way)

In your particular example, I can see why people refused. If we made it standard that people could formally request personal contact details from healthcare staff, the staff would be put on unnecessary social pressure, no matter how minor, to agree. Despite this, I think the majority of the time, they would say no, and this would upset the patient - especially if they have poor mental health. I think this is a good circumstance where we have deemed it inappropriate to start sparking up relationships - especially because I think the 'sparking up' would be extremely one-sided. The healthcare-patient relationship is rather unique*. I wouldn't consider you being harmed here, 99+% of people would not fixate on something like this and get upset by it, so I think you need to try deal with this.

*Edit: Just editing in to say that these people take care of you when you are extremely vulnerable even though they are not friends or family. Sometimes they do a better job than your friends and family!

Your edit is it. People can open up to a stranger more in a lot of cases to family or friends there's no judgement so you can feel free to really talk. That can create a strong feeling of friendship because that person really gets to know you, the problem is its their job.

 

[Final Escape]

I'm going to guess why this is. To avoid people from sharing information and having connection. It's to keep you divided from other people. Doing this makes people more vulnerable and controllable. If u don't allow them to befriend each other it's enforcing the social distancing. You are absolutely right to question this and think something doesn't seem right. Medical care is a mixed bag. They provide some actual care but can also harm people.

 

[CarbonMonoxide]

If we made it standard that people could formally request personal contact details from healthcare staff, the staff would be put on unnecessary social pressure, no matter how minor, to agree.

This is an excellent point. I don't mean to be disagreeable but medical practitioners have a tough job,especially female nurses. Imagine all the people they come into contact with. They have to be friendly and supportive and to a vulnerable patient, this might be misinterpreted. The other members of staff have a right to protect their fellow colleagues. Asking them for a colleague's number is applying undue pressure on them.

If the nurse didn't give out her contact, why would they? This is not an unnecessary social norm. It's an important show of respect that can actually save lives in the real world. I can't imagine working with people who gave out my contact to everyone arbitrarily without consulting with me first.

 

[BipolarGuy]

Why is society so obsessed with following their social norms, even when their social norms are causing unnecessary harm? I met a student nurse last year who I got on well with. I asked at the hospital about who had got contact details for the student nurses, intending to ask them to ask for the student nurse's permission to give me her e-mail address. I just got fobbed off with excuses or whatever and nobody would even tell me that.

So I asked my GP in the end. She says she can't help me because you can't make friends with a student nurse and can't make friends with someone younger than you; you've got to fit in with what's considered normal.

I'm suicidally lonely, the student nurse is training for a job that's all about helping people, but we're not allowed to even contact each other by e-mail, because fitting in with what's normal and following social norms is more important than making people's lives bearable; so I've got to miss out on what could be a great friendship just for the sake of society's social norms!

You met a student nurse last year and because you're now lonely you contacted the hospital and asked for her personal details.

They're quite right to refuse them to you.

 

[Ghost2211]

Not being able to contact medical professionals that work with you is a reasonable social norm. It's in place to maintain a professional relationship, and for everyone's safety. If you want someone's number or email you need to ask them personally since people won't generally give you other people's info.

 

[TheSkyIsBlue]

I don't see what is weird about that, I wouldn't like other people giving my contact info to strangers either.

 

[Didymus]

That's a long time, what happened a year ago? Didn't you exchange contact details then? Or you and her both didn't ask for them?

 

[Hazelnut]

I'm sorry if you felt hurt by it, but nurses and their students had whole hours at school to study and identify the limits of the relationship between the patients and themselves, especially when mental health is at stake.
It can be really tricky, and overstepping these limits can hurt personnally and professionally both of them, not even mentionning the success of recovery.
Maybe try to see it as a kind of mutual protection, not rejection.

 

[inflammed123]

Why is society so obsessed with following their social norms, even when their social norms are causing unnecessary harm? I met a student nurse last year who I got on well with. I asked at the hospital about who had got contact details for the student nurses, intending to ask them to ask for the student nurse's permission to give me her e-mail address. I just got fobbed off with excuses or whatever and nobody would even tell me that.

So I asked my GP in the end. She says she can't help me because you can't make friends with a student nurse and can't make friends with someone younger than you; you've got to fit in with what's considered normal.

I'm suicidally lonely, the student nurse is training for a job that's all about helping people, but we're not allowed to even contact each other by e-mail, because fitting in with what's normal and following social norms is more important than making people's lives bearable; so I've got to miss out on what could be a great friendship just for the sake of society's social norms!

That's like going to a restaurant and asking the server for her contact info as soon as you sit down because you think she's pretty. It's inappropriate. The server or nurse doesn't have a choice of being there and is stuck there if/when things get awkward. It's their job to be nice to you and you would be putting them in an uncomfortable position. If you want to ask someone out, do it in a place where both you and the person are in a neutral setting. Not at work.

 

[Chupacabra 44]

Why is society so obsessed with following their social norms, even when their social norms are causing unnecessary harm?

I understand your position but it's not merely an issue of social norms. There are legal implications of employees getting involved in situations like the one in which you presented. I'm not an HR professional but I've worked in that capacity for a couple of jobs in my past. Thus, I have some knowledge.

If anybody would get entangled in what you presented to them they would be risking their job.

 

[Deleted member 17949]

Their reaction is reasonable here tbh. The nurse is in a professional setting and it would be unprofessional for her to have the patient of a GP get into contact with her for personal reasons through her workplace. It's normal to maintain distance and people do it because it makes their working lives easier. This really has nothing to do with social norms, it's just normal workplace practice and the preference of various employees.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

What about her quality of life? Doesn't seem like that's been taken into consideration.

This post reminds me a bit of a situation I experienced. I was acquainted with a woman whose son was near my age and she asked me to take him to church with me so he could socialize. I did. Then he got romantically interested in me but I didn't feel the same way about him. He sent me a letter about how angry he was at God because God wouldn't let him have me. It was super uncomfortable, it wasn't about me as a person but an object he wanted, like I was supposed to be a present meant for him. This still feels really yucky 30 years later, and I think that's the same kind of reaction you're getting in your other thread, that it feels yucky.

I'm empathetic social norms and boundaries aren't serving your wants, but boundaries are actually quite wonderful, both in having one's boundaries and autonomy respected, and in turn respecting others'. We are our boundaries; if someone doesn't like or respect our boundaries, they don't like or respect us. I don't think you really respected the student nurse, I think you wanted her for your own, like an object that was created to soothe you and make you happy, and you're being blocked from obtaining it. It is safer for her that you are, until you are capable of recognizing and respecting boundaries, and being okay with the word no when directed at you.

 

[Marktheghost]

I met her at a community group run by the hospital. She was on a 7 week placement. When I first met her, I didn't realize that was actually her 2nd week (the community group is weekly). We just chatted to each other. We got on well. I was intending to ask her for her e-mail address myself on her last week, but found that she'd already left; what I thought was her 6th week had actually been her 7th week.

If they ask for her permission to give me her e-mail address, then she can choose for herself whether to contact me or not. I still don't see the problem with that. If she wants to stay in touch, it's going to improve her and my quality of life; and if she doesn't, it's not going to do any harm.

 

[Ghost2211]

It still breeches professional boundaries, and puts the burden of responsibility on the person that passes peoples info on to her. These policies are in place regardless of people's intentions. Sometimes friends come and go in life. The cold reality of it is if she desired to keep contact she would have talked to you about it, or at least said goodbye.

 

[Marktheghost]

These policies are in place regardless of people's intentions.

But that's the problem. People's intentions should be taken into consideration. Not even asking her, regardless of whether she and I want to keep in touch or not, is likely to cause unnecessary suffering.

 

[Ghost2211]

But that's the problem. People's intentions should be taken into consideration. Not even asking her, regardless of whether she and I want to keep in touch or not, is likely to cause unnecessary suffering.

It may also cause more hurt feelings to determine some are worthy of trust, and others are not. There is also the cases where people mask poor intentions with good intentions. It's just easier and smoother to have one policy for all.