Anybody want to talk about ‘Physics’? Anybody?

[Buddyluv19]

My nephew started studying physics in school recently. I had forgotten what an interesting subject it is! Anyone interested in this topic?

 

[Smilla]

Spooky entanglement at a distance yet again.

I thought I'd start a thread on physics but you beat me to it.

 

[Buddyluv19]

Spooky entanglement at a distance yet again.

I thought I'd start a thread on physics but you beat me to it.

'Spooky entanglement' - yes. My nephew hasn't brought that up yet. We're still discussing 'Newtonian' concepts - like Force = Mass * Accelleration; or Momentum = Mass * Velocity. These latter concepts won't make it to a TED talk, but they are helpful in explaining why he 'shouldn't follow too close' while driving.

 

[gingerplum]

I really like how there's three charactures from Roseanne that have recurring roles on The Big Bang Theory.

Oh, and there's Einstein. Pretty sure he was an atheist.

 

[MexicanTravels]

In college, I was in love with a physics major which lead me to read a lot of pop physics and philosophy of science. While I am no physicist by any means, I feel like there's a lot of math that is yet to be invented to tackle the big problems in the discipline.

 

[Smilla]

If you want yet another reason to commit suicide here is one...

 

[Smilla]

 

[gingerplum]

It speaks volumes about Tyson's good nature that he didn't just walk the fuck off set.

 

[Buddyluv19]

I really like how there's three charactures from Roseanne that have recurring roles on The Big Bang Theory.

Oh, and there's Einstein. Pretty sure he was an atheist.

View attachment 5206

Now I understand the 'HRTH'. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[WayOut]

I feel like there's a lot of math that is yet to be invented

Math isn't invented. It's understood, bit by bit. Pure math involves the highest level of "creative" thinking - a mind that is open, receptive to and cognizant of the reality with its infinite complexities. That's a big ask for a human brain.

Math is abstract, and sits beside physics which is concrete.

 

[WayOut]

I really like how there's three charactures from Roseanne that have recurring roles on The Big Bang Theory.

Oh, and there's Einstein. Pretty sure he was an atheist.

View attachment 5206

Love this post! :)

 

[MexicanTravels]

Math isn't invented. It's understood, bit by bit. Pure math involves the highest level of "creative" thinking - a mind that is open, receptive to and cognizant of the reality with its infinite complexities. That's a big ask for a human brain.

Math is abstract, and sits beside physics which is concrete.

Well actually, this is a debate among philosophers of mathematics. Everyone is entitled to their opinions though. Mine is that math is invented since it is an abstraction of the human mind.

 

[Buddyluv19]

It speaks volumes about Tyson's good nature that he didn't just walk the fuck off set. View attachment 5209

OMG! Right? Actually, he seemed a bit annoyed - especially for him!

 

[sif]

How is she so childish?

I could never wrap my head around it to be honest, biology seems to fit intuition a lot more maybe because that's what I am, biology thread anyone? Richard Dawkins is my idol aaaahhhh I'm sorry

 

[Smilla]

How is she so childish?

I could never wrap my head around it to be honest, biology seems to fit intuition a lot more maybe because that's what I am, biology thread anyone? Richard Dawkins is my idol aaaahhhh I'm sorry

Why is she such an idiot?

 

[sif]

Why is she such an idiot?

I didn't want to go there!

 

[WayOut]

Well actually, this is a debate among philosophers of mathematics. Everyone is entitled to their opinions though. Mine is that math is invented since it is an abstraction of the human mind.

Let's go back to basics then.

One apple plus one apple equals two apples.

The math is an abstraction that exists independent of the human brain. It doesn't rely on + and =, which are our short cuts to understanding the math, and our way of expressing it. Math just is.

The apples are described by physics, in terms of their mass. Physics explains the real world. We produce theories, we test them, then we gain more understanding about how things work. One apple isn't the same thing as two apples, for various reasons described by various disciplines. Physics is just one of these ways we understand and describe stuff.

I won't be getting into a philosophical discussion with you, as you have at best a first year college understanding of it. That is when people think they know much more than they do. It's pop philosophy 101. Complete waste of time, as is pop math and pop physics. Oh, and pop psychology, which you also occasionally pull out of your little bag of tricks, and of course, let's not forget IntroductionToLawForDummies. (101, of course.)

You do have a genuine talent for linguistics though. Well done. Good on you. Etc etc... ad infinitum...

 

[Smilla]

Let's go back to basics then.

One apple plus one apple equals two apples.

The math is an abstraction that exists independent of the human brain. It doesn't rely on + and =, which are our short cuts to understanding the math, and our way of expressing it. Math just is.

The apples are described by physics, in terms of their mass. Physics explains the real world. We produce theories, we test them, then we gain more understanding about how things work. One apple isn't the same thing as two apples, for various reasons described by various disciplines. Physics is just one of these ways we understand and describe stuff.

I won't be getting into a philosophical discussion with you, as you have at best a first year college understanding of it. That is when people think they know much more than they do. It's pop philosophy 101. Complete waste of time, as is pop math and pop physics. Oh, and pop psychology, which you also occasionally pull out of your little bag of tricks, and of course, let's not forget IntroductionToLawForDummies. (101, of course.)

You do have a genuine talent for linguistics though. Well done. Good on you. Etc etc... ad infinitum...

Would it be correct to say then we discovered math, not invented it? I always thought math just "is", and is a type of language to understand the universe, but then languages are inventions.

Perhaps Katy can explain it to me.

 

[WayOut]

Would it be correct to say then we discovered math, not invented it? I always thought math just "is", and is a type of language to understand the universe.

Yes, that's one way. Another way is to say we learned to understand it, and we're still learning about the abstract relationships that exist in math. We just didn't "invent" it. Math truths, like physics, has existed since the Big Bang. Beyond this there are math and physics which we simply don't yet understand, but which some brilliant minds are having a pretty good go at proposing various credible theories to describe and explain.

Our two biggest limitations are our brains, and our fallible senses by which we experience what we assume is "reality".

 

[Smilla]

Yes, that's one way. Another way is to say we learned to understand it, and we're still learning about the abstract relationships that exist in math. We just didn't "invent" it. Math truths, like physics, has existed since the Big Bang. Beyond this there are math and physics which we simply don't yet understand, but which some brilliant minds are having a pretty good go at proposing various credible theories to describe them.

Our two biggest limitations are our brains, and our fallible senses by which we experience what we assume is "reality".

Thanks for the response, this makes a lot of sense to me.

 

[MexicanTravels]

let's go back to basics then.

One apple plus one apple equals two apples.

The math is an abstraction that exists independent of the human brain. It doesn't rely on + and =, which are our short cuts to understanding the math, and our way of expressing it. Math just is.

The apples are described by physics, in terms of their mass. Physics explains the real world. We produce theories, we test them, then we gain more understanding about how things work. One apple isn't the same thing as two apples, for various reasons described by various disciplines. Physics is just one of these ways we understand and describe stuff.

I won't be getting into a philosophical discussion with you, as you have at best a first year college understanding of it. That is when people think they know much more than they do. It's pop philosophy 101. Complete waste of time, as is pop math and pop physics. Oh, and pop psychology, which you also occasionally pull out of your little bag of tricks, and of course, let's not forget IntroductionToLawForDummies. (101, of course.)

You do have a genuine talent for linguistics though. Well done. Good on you. Etc etc... ad infinitum...

Thank you (I think), and you're right. I was an art and film major in college, so writing about aesthetics (which is a branch of philosophy mind you) in multiple languages is where I excelled. But you'd be surprised at those fields' interdisciplinary nature. Here's an article that goes into the "Is math invented or discovered" debate:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/derek-abbott/is-mathematics-invented-o_b_3895622.html

It is very similar to the "is beauty invented or discovered" debate in aesthetics.

I wouldn't say pop anything is a waste of time. They get people interested in fields and provide them with the lay of the land. Eventually, people graduate from a pop understanding and into more complex thought, but those 101 classes are where they start.

 

[WayOut]

But you'd be surprised at those fields' interdisciplinary nature.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised at all. I agree with you on that.

I wouldn't say pop anything is a waste of time. They get people interested in fields and provide them with the lay of the land. Eventually, people graduate from a pop understanding and into more complex thought, but those 101 classes are where they start.

Disturbingly, I agree with you on this as well. However, they are a waste of time if people throw around ideas and theories when they simply don't have an adequate understanding of the issues. It's the cliche of when a little knowledge can be dangerous.

For me, one of the worst things that can be done by people with "a little knowledge" is when they use this to shoot down other people in discussions. That's always a low, cheap way to win, especially when it's not supposed to be about winning, but rather, people chatting, exploring and exchanging ideas.

 

[WayOut]

It is very similar to the "is beauty invented or discovered" debate in aesthetics.

Neither. Beauty is perceived.

Aesthetics in philosophy is not my strong point or area of particular interest. Logic is. Moral philosophy is a side interest, as is existentialism.

 

[MexicanTravels]

Neither. Beauty is perceived.

Beauty is a category and categories can be invented or discovered depending on your philosophical position and the nature and conception of the category. Aesthetics 101 (but you will find it in Philosophy 101 too).

 

[Buddyluv19]

Neither. Beauty is perceived.

Speaking of 'beauty', check out this BBC article. It's about 'beautiful equations'.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160120-you-decide-what-is-the-most-beautiful-equation-ever-written

 

[WayOut]

Beauty is a category and categories can be invented or discovered depending on your philosophical position and the nature and conception of the category. Aesthetics 101 (but you will find it in Philosophy 101 too).

"Perceived" covers both, and more.

Speaking of 'beauty', check out this BBC article. It's about 'beautiful equations'.

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20160120-you-decide-what-is-the-most-beautiful-equation-ever-written

I personally like the word "elegant" that is often used in these contexts, rather than "beautiful". It's a precise word in terms of our understanding, and describes more accurately why an equation, or theory, or whatever, is "beautiful".

 

[Smilla]

Schrodinger equation caused my ex to weep when he had to "solve" it in grad school to teach to students.

 

[MexicanTravels]

"Perceived" covers both, and more.

No it doesn't, but whatevs.

Anyway, who's into quasicrystals?

 

[sif]

No it doesn't, but whatevs.

Anyway, who's into quasicrystals?

Whaty-what-ls?

 

[MexicanTravels]

Whaty-what-ls?

They're really cool. There are mathematicians and physicists out there who think some iterations of quasicrystals hold the key to understanding the Riemann Hypothesis, which is an unsolved problem in number theory and is related to the behavior of prime numbers.