Help [Antiwork] Can I "literally" get by without any income, work, employment in today's world?

[TAW122]

This is something that I've researched before on the Internet through various subreddits and other forums on the Internet, but I could never find concrete information regarding my question. More often than not, people don't give straight answers, interchange terms, like work, income, job, all in one and it's confusing as hell.

Basically to set the record straight, what I mean by no job, no work, no income, I literally mean, like not working at all (no employment whatsoever, no under the table work, no income (yes this includes side jobs, projects, and other passive forms of income like gambling, stocks, investments, etc.)) and just with the money I have in my bank account, on me, my possessions/property, the clothes on my back, and my transportation (which can temporarily double as shelter).

Also, I'm not an expert on getting by without a structured life as most of my life I've lived was structured (from school, to university, to adulthood, etc.). Therefore, I will concede that I have little knowledge of survival and getting around as a vagrant or similar lifestyle. Perhaps the closest would be someone who goes camping for several days but more oftenly than not, they have other resources and planned dates, not mid to long term living off the land and going away from civilization.

The reason I've thought about this is if in the event that I decide to drop out of society and are not able to CTB (aka forced to live), I would at least be able to get back at the system somewhat (by not working and paying taxes, supporting a society that doesn't respect my wishes), and perhaps in the vagrant lifestyle find enough privacy and be in a situation where it is 'easier' to CTB.

Some things I currently have right now are a vehicle (it's old - like over 20 years old but still functional and requires maintenance time to time), I have about five digits figure in my bank account, and currently living under parents' roof (which sucks because I don't get the privacy and freedom I wanted. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for what I have though I do really want to move out and have my own space, privacy, etc.), not much property/possessions to my name (laptop, personal effects, mainly though I'd just carry necessities).

Again, I have no intention to do this anytime soon, but am inquiring some information so that in the event that I do end up doing so in the future (could be year or years from now), I would be prepared and be able to survive (long enough to get into a situation where I can CTB on my own terms).

 

[whatevs]

Figuring this shit out is humorously sounding as much work as just working.

Isn't there anything you like to do that could be monetizable? You craft large posts, perhaps something related with writing.

 

[TAW122]

Figuring this shit out is humorously sounding as much work as just working.

Isn't there anything you like to do that could be monetizable? You craft large posts, perhaps something related with writing.

Are you saying that it is impossible to do what I am trying to do?

While I do write large posts, I wouldn't be able to monetize it as that would require me to be knowledgeable in many other subjects and fields, then be able to write about them in a specific, specialized manner. Plus, that would still go against my goal, which is get by without any income, work, employment; as that still counts as 'working' albeit not in the traditional sense.

 

[Suicidebydeath]

It's pretty easy on social security. You can also get by if you invest enough money in something that gives 5% APR as that will generate enough income for a minimalist ascetic person to get by. We're talking far more money invested than most people have saved up though. More than five digits, which is what you said you have.

Without that, no it's impossible, no matter how minimalist or ascetic you are. You can absolutely get by with zero money at all, such as living in the wilderness, but it takes 'work' to survive like that. There's no way you can survive without doing 'work' if you have no income, that I can think of. Possibly being homeless, but then you're not independent, you will be dependent on others for food and shelter, and when I was homeless, it still generally cost money to get food at the designated places and hours, it was just cheap.

Now, if you enjoyed the 'work' it takes to survive on your own without money, then its possible. If you already don't have survival knowledge, not dedicated to it, and not inclined that way, which is how it sounds, then it's probably impossible. Learning how to survive without money would take some 'work' in itself.

I think your best bet is social security. You will need to demonstrate you're unfit for work, that can be pretty difficult without extenuating circumstances.

ETA:
"move where your currency has a higher value." - as Zegers said below, and in that case five digits might last a long time in a country where it goes a long way. However it will be a poorer country and so the standard of living will probably decline as well, and won't be what you're used to.

"On the other hand, don't be fooled, travellers, backpackers, youtubers, streamers, digital nomads, those who claim to be waiters, usually wear a mastercard in thier pocket." - as Zegers said below, also this. If someone is making claims online, it's likely too good to be true, they have an income or expenses from savings that they aren't disclosing.

 

[Zegers]

It depends upon your lifestyle, how much do you spend a month, do you have expenses under control, do you save? I spend about 1-2k per month (EU) just storing food, paying bills and stuff, barely going out, not having a car or anything fancy.
Expenses it's something to cut down. Spend as minimal as possible. Id say five digits is not enough to remain stable without recurring inflows - move where your currency has a higher value.

On the other hand, don't be fooled, travellers, backpackers, youtubers, streamers, digital nomads, those who claim to be waiters, usually wear a mastercard in thier pocket. There may be some who travel practically homeless but i don't think tourists in Cancun are.

 

[nys]

I don't know much about financial stuff so I might be wrong, but maybe you could live in your car? I also heard of this thing called Earthship a while ago. I think with that, you can build a house out of recycled stuff which I think costs money, but after it's built, you don't need to make monthly payments or anything.

Also when I searched up your question, Google told me about ecovillages- from the little I've researched so far, they look like they're eco-friendly communities that you can live in for free. Maybe you can consider those

 

[novem]

You can survive w/o work if you have property to land or your children to provide for you or your pension. Otherwise you will become homeless as many in America.

 

[TAW122]

@Suicidebydeath Thanks for the feedback and I believe that answers my question. It confirms that what I'm hoping to do is indeed impossible (barring living out in the wilderness which requires good survival skills and knowledge (which I lack) and may be much more effort than having the basic necessities that modern civilization has currently). I think the idea for social security seems to be a good one. I have tried that route before but somehow that didn't work out. I am on the spectrum (I can go in a bit more detail in PM if you'd like) so I know I meet one of the criteria, but like you said it is difficult to do so without extenuating circumstances.

@Zegers I will keep that in mind. I do save money and while I live at home (practically no privacy, am miserable in general due to not having privacy, parents wanting to know my whereabouts as long as I'm under their roof), I don't have much expediture other than food and some bills (I help out around the house too). I don't think I'll be able to CTB (reliably and successfully) unless I'm in an ideal circumstance which I hope to achieve. I don't really do much for a social life and barely have any friends IRL (not that I care because the last thing I want is something to impede and diminish my drive towards CTBing). I only have a car because in the US (unless you live in a big urban area with good public transportation) it is almost mandatory if going from place to place. I live in a small town/suburban area.

I will keep the latter part in mind, the travellers, backpackers, those adventurers I see on social media and youtube most likely have some failsafe and some sort of financial safety net if things ever go awry. Even the tourists there are well off financially (generally speaking).

@nys that is interesting, I will look into that and weigh the pros and cons, if there is any catch to going that route.

@novem I don't own any property other than a few things to my name (my laptop, personal effects, and some daily necessities). Also, I don't have children as I'm single and live under parents' roof. I think like others have said before I will probably need some sort of income or get on disability to get by.

 

[chocolatebar]

First of all, what's your interpretation of work? For some philosophers, work is part of how we interact with nature and what differs us from animals. Everything from growing or collecting food, making clothes, cooking, using tools, building shelters, machines and other things to teaching skills and developing sciences is considered work from this perspective

In this sense, abdicating from work means abdicating from everything we have and living in the state of nature.

However, I know the antiwork movement and understand their definition of work to be the employee-employer paid relationship. I believe this is close to what you consider as work.

In this case, the antiwork movement can only be successful when paired with an urban exodus movement. It's perfectly possible and desirable to create sustainable communities and living independently, without even having any monetary unit, without anyone telling any other what to do and spending your daily hour as you please. Is that what you expect from living without work? paradoxically, it involves a lot of work.

 

[Zegers]

Thanks guys, i learned finance and marketing by reading, but it didn't do me any help.

However it will be a poorer country and so the standard of living will probably decline as well, and won't be what you're used to

Every country has its upscale areas, no matter where it is. Due to exchange rate, an average joe could live there and maybe meet a princess lol thats cool, id have liked to do it but there is no motivation for.

invest

He said not interested in passives either so i didn't mention anything about it.

 

[TAW122]

First of all, what's your interpretation of work? For some philosophers, work is part of how we interact with nature and what differs us from animals. Everything from growing or collecting food, making clothes, cooking, using tools, building shelters, machines and other things to teaching skills and developing sciences is considered work from this perspective

In this sense, abdicating from work means abdicating from everything we have and living in the state of nature.

However, I know the antiwork movement and understand their definition of work to be the employee-employer paid relationship. I believe this is close to what you consider as work.

In this case, the antiwork movement can only be successful when paired with an urban exodus movement. It's perfectly possible and desirable to create sustainable communities and living independently, without even having any monetary unit, without anyone telling any other what to do and spending your daily hour as you please. Is that what you expect from living without work? paradoxically, it involves a lot of work.

I suppose I'll take the antiwork movement definition as that is more in line with reality and more feasible. I think you may be correct in how the antiwork movement can be successful, through a 'urban exodus' movement. I do expect to live without having to do work (at least in the traditional sense) and you may be right, it involves 'work' to be work free (ironically). Therefore, I've reconsidered my definition of work.

Furthermore, if to get by in the interim (until someday that I CTB (when the circumstances and time is right)) I may need to do some work, then I'm ok with it as long as I do the minimum needed to have my basic necessities met and be able to get into a situation where I am able to be free and go for CTB without interference and best chances of success.

He said not interested in passives either so i didn't mention anything about it.

As of now, I have changed my definition of work to be more in line with the antiwork stance after giving it careful thought. I believe that if we go by the philosophical definition of work, similar to what chocolatebar said, then it is paradoxically still work, thus when I mean not working it would be the traditional work of employee-employer paid relationship. Additionally, I have allowed some flexibility in regards to income (including the potential of getting on disability or so) because I believe that logically it would still be necessary to get by in today's world (unless you literally live in the wilderness and far away from civilization with all the survival skills, knowledge, and resources on your hand - though you will give up lots of comforts doing so).

 

[chocolatebar]

I've seen some people do something close to what you want by selling inherited properties, like their own houses, putting all the money in the bank and living off a simple life from fixed income. I's the kind of thing the person really needs to know what they're doing in order not to regret later, but it works.

in the end, It's still living through the work of others, but it would be another topic.

 

[TheDoomedDoomer]

I wish I knew of a way to do this as well. I'm not capable of holding down a job as I've tried everything you could think of job wise. I've literally had 27 jobs and I'm in my early 20s. I refuse to ever work again. I don't wanna be trapped in a system that exploits the working class and barely pays enough for basic needs for the next 50 years of my life when I'm already burtout and tired of living. I'd still wish to be able to somehow get the money to travel and see some cool places before I check out tho. I've recently applied for disability related to my mental stuff I've been diagnosed with at hopes to get approved. If I get that I'll probably hit the road for a few months and live out my car seeing these places I wanna go to then once I've seen them all I'll just check out. Unfortunately the chances of me getting approved are slim so I'll probably end up having to CTB soon.

 

[Someone123]

Are you saying that it is impossible to do what I am trying to do?

While I do write large posts, I wouldn't be able to monetize it as that would require me to be knowledgeable in many other subjects and fields, then be able to write about them in a specific, specialized manner. Plus, that would still go against my goal, which is get by without any income, work, employment; as that still counts as 'working' albeit not in the traditional sense.

I saw a story about someone who survived this way by living in a cave and eating out of dumpsters. Working seems like a better option than this.

 

[👁️👃👁️]

I wish I knew of a way to do this as well. I'm not capable of holding down a job as I've tried everything you could think of job wise. I've literally had 27 jobs and I'm in my early 20s. I refuse to ever work again. I don't wanna be trapped in a system that exploits the working class and barely pays enough for basic needs for the next 50 years of my life when I'm already burtout and tired of living. I'd still wish to be able to somehow get the money to travel and see some cool places before I check out tho. I've recently applied for disability related to my mental stuff I've been diagnosed with at hopes to get approved. If I get that I'll probably hit the road for a few months and live out my car seeing these places I wanna go to then once I've seen them all I'll just check out. Unfortunately the chances of me getting approved are slim so I'll probably end up having to CTB soon.

Most of the time people get denied the first time. If you get a social worker a caseworker to help you, they can help you to get a lawyer which will make it way easier. The chances aren't that slim man, if you know what you're doing. There are tons of people who get approved for things like depression.

I saw a story about someone who survived this way by living in a cave and eating out of dumpsters. Working seems like a better option than this.

If you live in America it's definitely not like this unless you choose for it to be this way. There is an abundance of the things you need here.


@TAW122

Look into WWOOF.

 

[Someone123]

If you live in America it's definitely not like this unless you choose for it to be this way. There is an abundance of the things you need here.

An abundance of things if you have no money? Without money homeless people really struggle in the u.s., it is day to day hell for them based on seeing a variety of interviews with homeless people.