Discussion Antinatalism

[Darkover]

1. Our parents, by bringing us into the world, impose upon us the need to eat. Thus, by sparing us misery, they only solve a problem they themselves created.
2. Being suicidal is always being torn between reason (which disapproves of this world) and one's animal side (which wants to live). A good compromise: let us live to not renounce our animal side, but let us not impose life on anyone else to not renounce reason.
3. "Life is obstinate: it clings to you even when you hate it!" (Mary Shelley). DNA rules us with an iron fist and imposes the instinct to live. Telling a suicidal person to just kill themselves is like telling a slave to just disobey their master: it minimizes the difficulty of the act. Procreating is thus indeed imposing life...
4. "Antinatalists should just kill themselves! - On the contrary, they should enjoy life as much as they can to compensate as much as possible for the injustice of being born."
5. The human condition is hardcore. A sufficient reason not to impose it on someone else through procreation.
6. Even if an existence could be painless, only an unborn person is sure not to suffer while a person brought into the world always risks biting the dust: procreating is playing Russian roulette, except it's your children who have the revolver of suffering at their temple.
7. "Not procreating deprives a human being of a thousand joys! - Except that deprivation only affects the living. An unborn person does not risk suffering any deprivation while a living person always risks enduring misfortunes that even a thousand joys wouldn't excuse."
8. Throwing someone into the world and telling them they're responsible for their difficulties in living is like throwing someone into an arena and telling them they're responsible for their difficulties in fighting lions.
9. Capitalism is just the human face of universal competition. In the universe, even trees and plants compete with each other. All life increases its power at the expense of another. Thus, procreating is bringing into the world either an unhappy prey or a happy predator who will harm other living beings; procreating always creates misery.
10. To know misery, just let yourself starve to death; conversely, happiness is always a "conditional offer." Thus, my misery is the fruit of my birth while my happiness is an always fragile and always threatened balance that I painstakingly try to build with the cards I have in hand.
11. By what right are we instrumentalized to feed the GDP when we never signed a contract authorizing our birth? By what right are we imposed to "earn our living" when we didn't even ask for this life?
12. What is a life worth that goes from bullied schoolchild to bedridden old person via exploited worker?
13. Procreators claim to want children for altruistic reasons. But when you suggest adoption, explaining that there are already born children who need love, they respond: "No, because they wouldn't be my flesh and blood!" Thus, the narcissistic essence of their desire is unmasked: they only want to give love to another human being if that person is considered an extension of themselves—in other words, only if their otherness is denied... - Wanting flesh of one's flesh is wanting to deny the otherness of one's child, dreaming of an unhealthy fusion. Adoption avoids this trap.
14. "Even the poor have the right to have children!" Yes, if we reduce the child to the status of "property among others"... But if we consider the child as a worthy human being who does not deserve to suffer poverty, then no, the poor do not have the right to have children.
15. Claiming that "having a child is my freedom" is as absurd as claiming that "raping is my freedom." No, if we consider that "freedom consists in being able to do only what does not harm others," then imposing life on someone who didn't ask for it falls outside the scope of your freedom.
16. How can we tolerate that any sadist or backward person has the right to have children and take care of them? Until a procreation permit is established, don't talk to me about ethics or equal opportunities...
17. Dialogue with a phenomenological father. "My son, I didn't impose life on you; your consciousness is the source of reality. - One doesn't exclude the other: my consciousness, despite itself, summons a reality you imposed on me. Making me believe my DNA fell from the sky would be the worst philosophical scam."
18. Fewer children = more resources to share, thus a better quality of life and a healthier nature. Natalism, from a humanist and ecological point of view, is therefore a masochistic and suicidal philosophy.
19. Against existentialism: the desire for a child is a product of DNA. Against determinism: freedom can revolt against DNA influences. Becoming aware of a determinism means being able to overcome it.
20. Our parents impose life on us, and our happiness is only the meager compensation for a dreadful human condition. Thus, it is our parents who owe us, not the other way around.
21. For life to be bearable, at least we should not be imprisoned or objectified; hence the necessity of a right to painless suicide and a universal basic income.
22. The only difference between a procreator and a horror movie director is that the latter uses special effects.
23. Before procreating, make the world habitable and welcoming.
24. "My son, my daughter, you must work to earn your living. - Since you threw me into this world and don't provide for my material needs, I agree."
25. I refuse to procreate in a world where violence reigns and kindness is considered weakness.
26. If a parent reads antinatalist writings (which will make them realize that it is because of them that their child must struggle in a violent world), they will understand that they have a duty to make the child they brought into the world happy.
27. Parents: 1/ They throw you into the world. 2/ They help you solve problems you would never have had if you hadn't been thrown into the world.
28. The children you didn't have are safe; children already here need you. Don't procreate, adopt.
29. Procreation: a premeditated crime. Even if life can be beautiful, it's not fun to be in a violent world and to walk towards death.
30. Even if life can be beautiful, your child is safe and content in non-existence, they will never be frustrated about not living (unlike the living who can be frustrated about having to die), so why risk making them unhappy by bringing them into the world?

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I agree with you. Antinatalism is so accurate

 

[avoid_slow_death]

I adore children. One of the few things that genuinely warms my heart and makes me smile anymore.

That said, I agree with antinatalism, but, I also believe in choice. I feel it would be better for people to choose not to procreate for two reasons: 1) If a child is never born, it can never suffer or make others suffer. 2) It would be wayyyyy better ecologically if we went extinct.

 

[AbusedInnocent]

Fantastic post, couldn't have said it better myself.