Antinatalism

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

How many people who exist regret being born?

A lot


How many people who dont exist regret not being born?

0

 

[sserafim]

And the worst thing is that we had no say in it. We're here because our parents selfishly decided to procreate. I blame nature for instilling the drive to reproduce into people. I hate the fact that I'm here because of two people's primal urges…I wish people didn't have this biological need or drive

 

[locked*n*loaded]

How many people who dont exist regret not being born?

You cannot possibly know that unless you have some information on the universe that all other humans are not privy to.

How many people who exist regret being born?

A lot

In actuality, an infinitesimally small minority. How many do you know IRL?

 

[MeltingBrain]

I respectfully have a counter to that assesment . There has to be 2 more additions to make this assessment more fair -

How many people who exist like that they were born?
Most

How many people who exist prefer being born over not being born?
Most

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

You cannot possibly know that unless you have some information on the universe that all other humans are not privy to.


In actuality, an infinitesimally small minority. How many do you know IRL?

I obviously cant know for sure but its definitely somewhere in the tens of millions which is a lot bigger than 0.

I respectfully have a counter to that assesment . There has to be 2 more additions to make this assessment more fair -

How many people who exist like that they were born?
Most

How many people who exist prefer being born over not being born?
Most

Thats completely true but people who dont exist yet obviously cant weigh the risks and rewards that come along with existing and cant consent to taking those risks. The people who procreate and create that existence have to make the decision. Someone who is never born cant regret not being born but someone who is born can regret it. If you care about minimizing the amount of potential suffering in the world, the most logical path you could take is not having children.

 

[undecided]

And the worst thing is that we had no say in it. We're here because our parents selfishly decided to procreate. I blame nature for instilling the drive to reproduce into people. I hate the fact that I'm here because of two people's primal urges…I wish people didn't have this biological need or drive

Is it your parent's fault that you are suicidal?

 

[sserafim]

Is it your parent's fault that you are suicidal?

It's my parent's fault that I was born. They actively played a part in creating me and resulting in my existence. This happened without my consent. If I had a choice I would not be here or even exist in the first place, but unfortunately it's hard to successfully die.

Therefore I blame my parents for bringing me into this world. If I were never born, I would never even have the option or opportunity to be suicidal, because I would not have consciousness or awareness.

Also, my parents have expectations for me that I'm not living up to, and they regard me as a failure. They want to disown and disinherit me because I've failed at life (and adulting). They are playing a part in my suicidal thoughts, so yes, I think they're a factor in me being suicidal

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

Is it your parent's fault that you are suicidal?

I couldnt be suicidal if I wasnt born so logically it is partly their fault. I dont hate my mom for it because she obviously didnt think about it the same way that I do and was possibly raped by my dad. It is definitely my dads fault though, he abused me growing up and that has for sure contributed to my suicidal thoughts.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I obviously cant know for sure but its definitely somewhere in the tens of millions which is a lot bigger than 0.

"Every year 703 000 people take their own life and there are many more people who attempt suicide".
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide

703,000 suicides per year/8,000,000,000 people in world = 0.000087875% of population

 

[undecided]

It's my parent's fault that I was born. If I had a choice I would not be here. Therefore I blame them for bringing me into this world. If I were never born, I would never have the option or opportunity to be suicidal, because I would not have consciousness or existence.

Also, my parents have expectations for me that I'm not living up to, and they regard me as a failure. They want to disown and disinherit me because I've failed at life (and adulting). They are playing a part in my suicidal thoughts, so yes, I think they're a factor in me being suicidal

If you had a choice, would you have been born into a different family, one which would make you feel loved and not suicidal?

Would that make a difference to your happiness and how you feel about hating life?

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

"Every year 703 000 people take their own life and there are many more people who attempt suicide".
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide

703,000 suicides per year/8,000,000,000 people in world = 0.000087875% of population

Yeah that lines up with what im saying lol. Not everyone who regrets existing commits suicide immediately… if 700k kill themselves every year, it would be reasonable to assume that 10-20 million are suffering and regret being born… even if it was 100 people who exist that regret being born, my argument would still stand because if you dont exist, your odds of regretting not existing are 0.

 

[sserafim]

If you had a choice, would you have been born into a different family, one which would make you feel loved and not suicidal?

Would that make a difference to your happiness and how you feel about hating life?

Honestly, if I had a choice, I wouldn't exist at all. If I had to exist, I would choose to be a cat rather than a human being. I never wanted to be a human in the first place. Honestly, I've never even felt like a human being, I feel like an alien in this world. Ever since I was little, I dreamed about being a cat. I have certain problems (neurodivergence) that make it hard for me to fit into the world and society.

I wish I could be a cat instead because they have carefree lives. They don't have to work for a living or pay to exist, they can simply live without any worries. I wish I could be like them, without a worry in the world….

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

"Every year 703 000 people take their own life and there are many more people who attempt suicide".
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide

703,000 suicides per year/8,000,000,000 people in world = 0.000087875% of population

This site is full of people that are way more severely suicidal than the average suicidal person and how many do you actually see go through with it? Theres maybe 5 or 6 goodbye posts posted by people that actually do it on a rare day.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

if 700k kill themselves every year, it would be reasonable to assume that 10-20 million are suffering and regret being born

???????????????? How to you interpolate that from 703,000? At most, I'd say double that for the failed attempts. No matter how you slice it, it is still a fraction of a percent of the total population. There's a huge difference between someone who is suffering (and we know a lot of people on this planet suffer), and those who wish they were never born.

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

Honestly, if I had a choice, I wouldn't exist at all. If I had to exist, I would choose to be a cat rather than a human being. I never wanted to be a human in the first place. I've never even felt like a human being honestly, I feel like an alien in this world. Ever since I was little, I dreamed about being a cat. I have certain problems (neurodivergence) that make it hard for me to fit into the world and society.

I wish I could be a cat instead because they have carefree lives. They don't have to have make money or pay to exist, they can simply live without any worries. I wish I could be like them, without a worry in the world….

???????????????? How to you interpolate that from 703,000? At most, I'd say double that for the failed attempts. No matter how you slice it, it is still a fraction of a percent of the total population. There's a huge difference between someone who is suffering (and we know a lot of people on this planet suffer), and those who wish they were never born.

I disagree but either way it doesnt really do anything against my argument that not existing is less likely to result in suffering and regret than existing.

 

[locked*n*loaded]

This site is full of people that are way more severely suicidal than the average suicidal person and how many do you actually see go through with it? Theres maybe 5 or 6 goodbye posts posted by people that actually do it on a rare day.

What you are saying here seems to be making my point. What are there like 25000 SaSu members, and that's worldwide. Of course not all know about SaSu. What about those that recover?

 

[undecided]

Honestly, if I had a choice, I wouldn't exist at all. If I had to exist, I would choose to be a cat rather than a human being. I never wanted to be a human in the first place. Ever since I was little, I dreamed about being a cat. I have certain problems (neurodivergence) that make it hard for me to fit into the world and society.

I wish I could be a cat instead because they have carefree lives. They don't have to have make money or pay to exist, they can simply live without any worries. I wish I could be like them, without a worry in the world….

Not all cats (or dogs, or other innocent, carefree animals) live carefree lives. Many are abused beyond belief, by HUMANS !
But yes, I get what you're saying.
Thank you for being so open about your struggles. I wish you peace and I'm sending love to you

 

[locked*n*loaded]

I disagree but either way it doesnt really do anything against my argument that not existing is less likely to result in suffering and regret than existing.

For who? The ones who suffer - yes? But, what does not existing cause the ones who don't suffer? It causes their choice to exist to cease, that's what. The vast majority of the world is very happy living their lives, even with the sorrow, and maybe even some temporary suffering, that infiltrates it once in a while.

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

What you are saying here seems to be making my point. What are there like 25000 SaSu members, and that's worldwide. Of course not all know about SaSu. What about those that recover?

Not at all. Im saying the average severity of suicidal thoughts in sasu members is most likely a lot worse than the average severity in suicidal people that arent on sasu. If I say 5 people out of 25000 on here which is a high ball kill themselves each day, thats only 0.000224% of members. Why would it be crazy to think that there are 10s of millions in the general population that are suicidal and regret existing if 700,000 actually kill themselves every year?

For who? The ones who suffer - yes? But, what does not existing cause the ones who don't suffer? It causes their choice to exist to cease, that's what. The vast majority of the world is very happy living their lives, even with the sorrow, and maybe even some temporary suffering, that infiltrates it once in a while.

It causes nothing to those that dont exist… they arent conscious beings. Thats my whole point

 

[undecided]

"Every year 703 000 people take their own life and there are many more people who attempt suicide".
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide

703,000 suicides per year/8,000,000,000 people in world = 0.000087875% of population

Yes, but is that down to just 'being born' , or because of an awful life experience. Nobody is born feeling suicidal !

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

Yes, but is that down to just 'being born' , or because of an awful life experience. Nobody is born feeling suicidal !

Im completely aware of that but existence is a prerequisite to suffering and being suicidal so ultimately yes, it does come down to just being born.

 

[undecided]

Im completely aware of that but existence is a prerequisite to suffering and being suicidal so ultimately yes, it does come down to just being born.

So the human race should die out completely, is that how you see it? Just because SOME may become unhappy with their lives and decide to end it?

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

So the human race should die out completely, is that how you see it? Just because SOME may become unhappy with their lives and decide to end it?

Yeah, exactly, and if that happened, obviously nobody would exist and therefore nobody could have any regret, care, or opinion on it because they wouldnt exist so it wouldnt matter.

 

[undecided]

Yeah, exactly, and if that happened, obviously nobody would exist and therefore nobody could have any regret, care, or opinion on it because they wouldnt exist so it wouldnt matter.

And now you're just being ridiculous

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

So the human race should die out completely, is that how you see it? Just because SOME may become unhappy

And now you're just being ridiculous

I understand why you think it sounds ridiculous but its a purely logical thought process. If you can poke holes in my argument, do it. Im open to being wrong. Im wrong all the time.

 

[undecided]

I understand why you think it sounds ridiculous but its a purely logical thought process. If you can poke holes in my argument, do it. Im open to being wrong. Im wrong all the time.

There are more people who live happy, productive lives, and die from illness or old age than there are who commit suicide. So, the human race are, overall, HAPPY living.

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

There are more people who live happy, productive lives, and die from illness or old age than there are who commit suicide. So, the human race are, overall, HAPPY living.

Can I ask if you think that suffering in this world should be minimized at all costs? If you think it should be, you should agree with me because the only way that you are guaranteed to not suffer is by not existing.

There are more people who live happy, productive lives, and die from illness or old age than there are who commit suicide. So, the human race are, overall, HAPPY living.

And yes, obviously if nobody existed, all of those happy people with great lives wouldnt exist either but they wouldnt care that they lost out on it because they couldnt.

 

[undecided]

Can I ask if you think that suffering in this world should be minimized at all costs? If you think it should be, you should agree with me because the only way that you are guaranteed to not suffer is by not existing.

The suffering in this world should be minimised by killing the abusers, the people who cause others to suffer! Never mind putting them in prison, just kill them all. Stop them from reproducing, stop them from causing pain, stop them from causing others from wishing they were never born. Amen !

 

[lopsidedcrawdad1]

The suffering in this world should be minimised by killing the abusers, the people who cause others to suffer! Never mind putting them in prison, just kill them all. Stop them from reproducing, stop them from causing pain, stop them from causing others from wishing they were never born. Amen !

I 1000% agree with you on that but unfortunately not all suffering is caused by maliciousness from others.

 

[rainseahorse]

I think that many people think of it as maximizing joy in their lives, and so it's not just about minimizing suffering. But either way, I doubt that either joy or suffering keeps people from maintaining a positive outlook on life. I feel like normal people just feel at peace or satisfied in some way. It's actually written in our biology as well. Those that maintain healthy balance in their life with things like nutrition, sleep, exercise, and sunlight, are just less prone to being depressed.