Discussion Algorithm Can Identify Suicidal People Using Brain Scans

[sif]

https://www.wired.com/story/fmri-ai-suicide-ideation/
https://science.slashdot.org/story/...an-identify-suicidal-people-using-brain-scans



Does anybody remember seeing this reported before. How does anybody else feel about this and do you think it is good or bad?

 

[LiveSlowDieFast]

That seems like it could be abused easily. Far worse to me though is what is described in the wired article:

"And others are mining data even further upstream. Public health researchers are poring over Google searches for evidence of upticks in suicidal ideation. Facebook is scanning users' wall posts and live videos for combinations of words that suggest a risk of self-harm. The VA is currently piloting an app that passively picks up vocal cues that can signal depression and mood swings. Verily is looking for similar biomarkers in smart watches and blood draws. The goal for all these efforts is to reach people where they are—on the internet and social media—instead of waiting for them to walk through a hospital door or hop in an fMRI tube."

That seems outright dystopian to me.

 

[sif]

A lot of things seem abusable and dystopian to me nowadays, but things stay how they are because we positives outweigh the positives and it's better than going back in time right? It seems like the artificial intelligence stuff is the real scary part of it because if I understand correctly it applies to other things too. It's scary even though I want to see the good in it

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

That seems like it could be abused easily. Far worse to me though is what is described in the wired article:

"And others are mining data even further upstream. Public health researchers are poring over Google searches for evidence of upticks in suicidal ideation. Facebook is scanning users' wall posts and live videos for combinations of words that suggest a risk of self-harm. The VA is currently piloting an app that passively picks up vocal cues that can signal depression and mood swings. Verily is looking for similar biomarkers in smart watches and blood draws. The goal for all these efforts is to reach people where they are—on the internet and social media—instead of waiting for them to walk through a hospital door or hop in an fMRI tube."

That seems outright dystopian to me.

I didn't read the article I could do that but we know our nature and nurturing skills for I haven't even CTB yet I wonder if it is truly worth it haven't died obviously but I wonder if I would better off alive or dead still need to find purpose or guidance in this world we were born into.

 

[ron_g]

This issue clearly shows the similarity between psychiatry and law enforcement: both want to use data about people to predict behavior and, if need be, detain them to prevent said behavior. Calling it "help" or "medicine" doesn't change that. In psychiatry, you don't have the right to remain silent. If you remain silent, this fact will be interpreted as symptom of a disease.

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

This issue clearly shows the similarity between psychiatry and law enforcement: both want to use data about people to predict behavior and, if need be, detain them to prevent said behavior. Calling it "help" or "medicine" doesn't change that. In psychiatry, you don't have the right to remain silent. If you remain silent, this fact will be interpreted as symptom of a disease.

And such symptom of a disease just leads people to either a psych ward aka looney bin which we all know is just another word for a "peaceful" prison or more medications or just so people can get money from the insurance company or talk therapy sure that is all good but it doesn't get rid of the eventual or the inevitable it is just another contained and controlled environment just let some of us die, shit, look at me posting on here and I can't even decide whether I want to truly CTB sure I have someone in email but again all one has to do is backtrack the data from data mining, data hacking, and data tracking which someone who knows more than I do on here probably already knows who I am.

 

[sif]

And such symptom of a disease just leads people to either a psych ward aka looney bin which we all know is just another word for a "peaceful" prison or more medications or just so people can get money from the insurance company or talk therapy sure that is all good but it doesn't get rid of the eventual or the inevitable it is just another contained and controlled environment just let some of us die, shit, look at me posting on here and I can't even decide whether I want to truly CTB sure I have someone in email but again all one has to do is backtrack the data from data mining, data hacking, and data tracking which someone who knows more than I do on here probably already knows who I am.

Yes I think the archaic systems need overturning before technology like this should be used.

 

[sif]

This issue clearly shows the similarity between psychiatry and law enforcement: both want to use data about people to predict behavior and, if need be, detain them to prevent said behavior. Calling it "help" or "medicine" doesn't change that. In psychiatry, you don't have the right to remain silent. If you remain silent, this fact will be interpreted as symptom of a disease.

Humans just like to predict everything

 

[CuriousAboutThis]

Humans just like to predict everything

Makes you wonder if humans want to become "God" personally I would believe provided with evidence and reason can't do it on faith nothing against it here due to the rules and I am not here to debate maybe conversations as long it doesn't get heated but in reality I think I use that as an excuse and or justification in hopes something greater happens in my life other than wishing for death.

 

[lukaszz12]

Yeah, they wish.

 

[Pulpit2018]

Soon,they will be using scans to detect "wrong thoughts" and "bad feelings about government".
Well,we cant have that sir...

 

[ron_g]

From first article:
In a study people who committed suicide either in the hospital or immediately following discharge, nearly 80 percent denied thinking about it to the last mental healthcare professional they saw.

When people hint about their suicidality, psych professionals see this as a cry for help. When people hide it, professionals still want to save them. IMO the psych industry and suicide prevention aren't well informed philosophically.

 

[TAW122]

Soon,they will be using scans to detect "wrong thoughts" and "bad feelings about government".
Well,we cant have that sir...

Hopefully I would have ctb'ed before that actually becomes a reality. I have multiple things that could easily push me over the edge.

 

[Final Escape]

Soon,they will be using scans to detect "wrong thoughts" and "bad feelings about government".
Well,we cant have that sir...

Another reason I want to go ASAP! Before this policing shit gets even more out of hand.

 

[azucaramargo]

Another reason I want to go ASAP! Before this policing shit gets even more out of hand.

I don't want you to go, Final Escape.

 

[sif]

From first article:
In a study people who committed suicide either in the hospital or immediately following discharge, nearly 80 percent denied thinking about it to the last mental healthcare professional they saw.

When people hint about their suicidality, psych professionals see this as a cry for help. When people hide it, professionals still want to save them. IMO the psych industry and suicide prevention aren't well informed philosophically.

That's a good post

 

[Kyrok]

Were the researchers interpreting the fMRI blinded from knowing which subject was from which cohort?

I sure hope they don't try to make any medicine out of this quality of data.

 

[TheCrow]

This issue clearly shows the similarity between psychiatry and law enforcement: both want to use data about people to predict behavior and, if need be, detain them to prevent said behavior. Calling it "help" or "medicine" doesn't change that. In psychiatry, you don't have the right to remain silent. If you remain silent, this fact will be interpreted as symptom of a disease.

So true! I refused to answer if I was suicidal to a counselor when I was in the ER, because I figured anything I said or the way I said it would be used against me. Well, she used not answering against me, and I got put on a 5-day hold in the psych ward.

 

[Kyrok]

So true! I refused to answer if I was suicidal to a counselor when I was in the ER, because I figured anything I said or the way I said it would be used against me. Well, she used not answering against me, and I got put on a 5-day hold in the psych ward.

Interesting. If the hospital is understood as acting on behalf of the state, you could have a 1st Amendment case against them.

 

[TheCrow]

Interesting. If the hospital is understood as acting on behalf of the state, you could have a 1st Amendment case against them.

Yeah, you're right. I probably do. Hmm.

Also/unfortunately I attempted to hold the head ER doctor at the same hospital accountable for her actions (she Narcaned me twice when I wasn't high or overdosing, but she knew it was likely still in my system. She fucking enjoyed it. Then she wrote in the medical files that I was overdosing & that's why it was administered.)

I filed a complaint, and the staff that was in the room denied what happened. I tried calling administers above her, but their secretaries kept pushing me back to patient relations.

Long story short, I've kinda given up on medical professionals getting in trouble. They are reviewed by their peers and possibly someone they're friends with. I can't handle the stress of going through that again. But thank you for suggesting that.

 

[Smilla]

Interesting. If the hospital is understood as acting on behalf of the state, you could have a 1st Amendment case against them.

So much this!

 

[onewayroad]

I'm a neuroscientist, yes this is legitimate, but still needs some things worked out before it can be used diagnostically, and more importantly it's extremely expensive and time consuming to do. So it's not likely to happen in the next 30 years. After that, it's possible.

 

[JJ-NOHOPE]

I think this is really scary shit.
Reminds me of many dystopian books and films:
1984
Brave New World
Thx 1138

It's getting to the point where if you don't think and act like everyone else you are going to be stuck in a psych ward and/or put on drugs against your free will.

Mental illness might not be fun, but think about the contributions of many people who had definite issues.
Ernest Hemingway
Joan of Arc - one of my favorites. Nowadays they'd put her on Thorazine. Sure she burned alive finally, but in the meantime was an absolutely extraordinary person who personally helped France evict England from occupying her country. She changed the world!
I could come up with many more examples, but it's very late.

Maybe mental illness is not illness, just difference.

And yes, some of us may have to die or suffer because we are different.

 

[21Neberg]

This is horrible. I don't want to be identified, and I certainly don't want help. I've had help, and yet I'm back here again. Life isn't fun, life isn't enjoyable and if I want to quit my life then that should be my choice. People should respect that choice, not force me to live another day in this hell.

 

[TheCrow]

This is horrible. I don't want to be identified, and I certainly don't want help. I've had help, and yet I'm back here again. Life isn't fun, life isn't enjoyable and if I want to quit my life then that should be my choice. People should respect that choice, not force me to live another day in this hell.

Yep. They want you to stay for them so they're not sad. I mean, it's understandable. But then the filth of mental illness gets all over everyone, and then they're pissed.

 

[21Neberg]

Yep. They want you to stay for them so they're not sad. I mean, it's understandable. But then the filth of mental illness gets all over everyone, and then they're pissed.

They don't understand what's it's like to live with this desire to die, this never ending sadness. Granted, the sadness can fade away - but only for a short while. It's undeniable that it will come back and make me want to CTB again.

This time I'm going to though, I will not make it to 2020

 

[Final Escape]

I don't want you to go, Final Escape.

I have to, its my retirement plan lol! Retiring from life.

 

[TheCrow]

They don't understand what's it's like to live with this desire to die, this never ending sadness. Granted, the sadness can fade away - but only for a short while. It's undeniable that it will come back and make me want to CTB again.

This time I'm going to though, I will not make it to 2020

Right?! My dad gets it, bc he works in the mental health field. My mom's side doesn't at all, which is ridiculous bc my grandfather on that side committed suicide.

You're right—the sadness always comes back. I don't anticipate making it to 2020, either. Looks like this is our year!

 

[21Neberg]

Right?! My dad gets it, bc he works in the mental health field. My mom's side doesn't at all, which is ridiculous bc my grandfather on that side committed suicide.

You're right—the sadness always comes back. I don't anticipate making it to 2020, either. Looks like this is our year!

That must be nice though, to have a close family member that knows exactly what you're going through. But you're right - we're going to make this our year. Our last one, to be precise.

 

[Zzzzz]

From first article:
In a study people who committed suicide either in the hospital or immediately following discharge, nearly 80 percent denied thinking about it to the last mental healthcare professional they saw.

When people hint about their suicidality, psych professionals see this as a cry for help. When people hide it, professionals still want to save them. IMO the psych industry and suicide prevention aren't well informed philosophically.

It's based off of the incorrect assumption that anyone who is suicidal is not thinking "clearly" and that there are NO legitimate reasons why a person would be suicidal. This is of course ridiculous. There are many legitimate reasons why a person might be suicidal .