Discussion Afterlife

[Localized]

If you believe in a heaven and a hell, would you still CTB? I've been struggling for many years because I was raised in a religious household so my beliefs tell me if I try to do it I will end up in eternal suffering

I feel stuck

 

[outlook56]

Yes, of course I will choose hell

 

[nicotine_goblin]

The prospect of even worse hell than planet Earth is horrifying. I don't believe in afterlife personally so it doesn't bother me, but if I did I probably would reconsider suicide or at least have a harder time choosing that way

 

[sserafim]

If you believe in a heaven and a hell, would you still CTB? I've been struggling for many years because I was raised in a religious household so my beliefs tell me if I try to do it I will end up in eternal suffering

I feel stuck

Personally I don't believe in hell but if hell existed I wouldn't ctb bc I wouldn't want to go somewhere even worse. Eternal suffering and torment does not sound fun imo.

But honestly, I think the concept of hell just exists to scare people.

 

[Pomegranate]

Believing in heaven or hell definitely makes it harder to CTB. Things are bad enough; why should I go to a worse place? I'm inclined to believe in naturalism and that we cannot (yet, if ever) violate the natural laws of the universe. But it's not like I'm the admin of this universe, so more accurately I don't know.

Not knowing what's after is still better than being certain you'll go to hell.

 

[azumangadaioh]

honestly i have no idea. it seems kinda shitty, to ctb to escape hell on earth just to face a greater hell down below. fucked up reality if true

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm similar to you- I was brought up where someone specifically believed suicides go to hell. Even though I have doubts about God and religion, I can't shake those thoughts entirely and it's a horrible doubt to have.

Still- it's pretty bold of anyone to assume they've lived a good enough life to get into heaven- whether or not they CTB. How do they know how strict the rules are? Not that I've lived a massively sinful life but I can't say I like God- if there is one. I'm certainly not a true believer. I expect that alone is enough to condemn me.

 

[Darkover]

the only hell that exist is the evil universe when we die we're either nothing forever or rebirth

 

[Localized]

I'm similar to you- I was brought up where someone specifically believed suicides go to hell. Even though I have doubts about God and religion, I can't shake those thoughts entirely and it's a horrible doubt to have.

Still- it's pretty bold of anyone to assume they've lived a good enough life to get into heaven- whether or not they CTB. How do they know how strict the rules are? Not that I've lived a massively sinful life but I can't say I like God- if there is one. I'm certainly not a true believer. I expect that alone is enough to condemn me.

I think the entire point of religions like Christianity is that it is not a checklist but something you have faith in, just like you can't prove there is/isn't a god. It's all about faith and having faith during times where you want to commit suicide is tough for most.

I also think that we need to open up suicide discussions more, it's not a black and white topic like religion makes it out to be, the one and only time I brought up suicide to my parents they laughed and td me I was "psychotic" I wasn't able to get any access to therapy either so it's been a while since I've been able to talk about these things

Yes, of course I will choose hell

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

Yes, of course I will choose hell

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

Yes, of course I will choose hell

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

 

[outlook56]

I think the entire point of religions like Christianity is that it is not a checklist but something you have faith in, just like you can't prove there is/isn't a god. It's all about faith and having faith during times where you want to commit suicide is tough for most.

I also think that we need to open up suicide discussions more, it's not a black and white topic like religion makes it out to be, the one and only time I brought up suicide to my parents they laughed and td me I was "psychotic" I wasn't able to get any access to therapy either so it's been a while since I've been able to talk about these things

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

To be honest I don't care about hell or anything else , I just want to go out from this shit (iam sure 100%)

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think the entire point of religions like Christianity is that it is not a checklist but something you have faith in, just like you can't prove there is/isn't a god. It's all about faith and having faith during times where you want to commit suicide is tough for most.

I also think that we need to open up suicide discussions more, it's not a black and white topic like religion makes it out to be, the one and only time I brought up suicide to my parents they laughed and td me I was "psychotic" I wasn't able to get any access to therapy either so it's been a while since I've been able to talk about these things

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

If hell is what it's made out to be, all the pain and suffering you've gone through throughout your life will have been nothing compared to it, so it's something to think about

True- but I don't think you can pretend to have faith to get in to heaven. I expect God is smart enough to see through that. If faith is a prerequisite- a lot of very good people are going to hell. In my own experience- some of the kindest, most compassionate and altruistic people I've known in my life have been atheists. If God has sent them to hell- I'd say something was very wrong.

I sense maybe you feel there should be a need to believe? We ought to make an effort to? Surely that does depend on there being a God though. Some people find it difficult to truly put their faith in something they have so many doubts over. Feels a bit like the Santa Claus myth. When children start to have doubts- I expect some still go along with the story to get presents. Will God REALLY be satisfied with someone who has so many doubts but just pretends?

Still- I agree with you that suicide needs to be an open topic for discussion. IF people want help and support- in whatever form is most relevant to them- maybe religious, maybe not- they need to feel free to talk about it and be taken seriously. I'm sorry that you weren't.

 

[Grav]

If there is such a thing as hell in the typical fire/pitchfork in the butt/pots of oil scene, then no I'd stick around to go out naturally (assuming ctb was a fast track to the pit and everything short of murder was not much of a big deal). If it's a "hell is what you make it, chill out and learn to love, blah, blah" then probably would ctb. I just have no verifiable proof either way so I'm hedging my bets currently.

 

[Localized]

True- but I don't think you can pretend to have faith to get in to heaven. I expect God is smart enough to see through that. If faith is a prerequisite- a lot of very good people are going to hell. In my own experience- some of the kindest, most compassionate and altruistic people I've known in my life have been atheists. If God has sent them to hell- I'd say something was very wrong.

I sense maybe you feel there should be a need to believe? We ought to make an effort to? Surely that does depend on there being a God though. Some people find it difficult to truly put their faith in something they have so many doubts over. Feels a bit like the Santa Claus myth. When children start to have doubts- I expect some still go along with the story to get presents. Will God REALLY be satisfied with someone who has so many doubts but just pretends?

Still- I agree with you that suicide needs to be an open topic for discussion. IF people want help and support- in whatever form is most relevant to them- maybe religious, maybe not- they need to feel free to talk about it and be taken seriously. I'm sorry that you weren't.

When I said that people need to have faith in a religion, I meant truly have faith and not in the sense where there might be a god so might as well act well but truly believe that every day of your life there is a omniscient being watching you

I also do not think that God will send non believers to hell, I think it will be a case by case scenario for each person and I can only hope that God is merciful because I have a lot of catching up to do.

 

[Forever Sleep]

When I said that people need to have faith in a religion, I meant truly have faith and not in the sense where there might be a god so might as well act well but truly believe that every day of your life there is a omniscient being watching you

I also do not think that God will send non believers to hell, I think it will be a case by case scenario for each person and I can only hope that God is merciful because I have a lot of catching up to do.

Curious- does it matter which faith people believe in? What qualities do you think God values most highly? Gullibility and obedience looks high on the list to me- if we are all supposed to be adhering to a mainstream religion.

I'd hope it would be love. I can actually understand why and how people create an image of a caring and nurturing God that they love. Still- looking around, I don't quite know how they find the evidence for that.

If there is a God- most of what they inspire in me is fear and if I'm truly honest- disgust and hatred. So- like I say- CTB or not- I'm likely going to hell. God can't seem to handle criticism if Lucifer was sent to rule there for all eternity for having a minor disagreement, so, heaven knows what they have planned for me. I tend to tell managers what I think about their managerial style.

Sorry- I didn't mean to have a go at you by the way. God and religion are things I get quite agitated by.

 

[lwlaiet8887]

It's nonsense. If God were truly benevolent you'd never have the thought of CBT in the first place. You ever think about all of the endless suffering in the world yet God does nothing to save these people even when they cry out him and follow his commands dutifully? There's nothing virtuous about suffering unless you're a sadist. That's proof alone enough that there's no God. I would happily dine in hell.

 

[Localized]

It's nonsense. If God were truly benevolent you'd never have the thought of CBT in the first place. You ever think about all of the endless suffering in the world yet God does nothing to save these people even when they cry out him and follow his commands dutifully? There's nothing virtuous about suffering unless you're a sadist. That's proof alone enough that there's no God. I would happily dine in hell.

God does not interfere with with the world, for knowledge does not mean that he has to take action, we were given free will and God knows what we will do but he will not stop anyone doing evil and he will not save anyone done wrong. This is because everyone will get judged by him when we die, and he will judge mercifully yet fairly

 

[lwlaiet8887]

God does not interfere with with the world, for knowledge does not mean that he has to take action, we were given free will and God knows what we will do but he will not stop anyone doing evil and he will not save anyone done wrong. This is because everyone will get judged by him when we die, and he will judge mercifully yet fairly

Nonsense, I'm really glad I don't believe in dogmatic fairytales and or that I have such bad daddy issues that I need some entity to dictate and judge my life.

 

[Localized]

If you believe in a heaven and a hell, would you still CTB? I've been struggling for many years because I was raised in a religious household so my beliefs tell me if I try to do it I will end up in eternal suffering

I feel stuck

I find it interesting that the poll results ended up fairly spilt, It makes sense that "I don't know" got the most votes because it's a difficult topic, but what surprised me is that there is a perfect split between "yes" and "no"

 

[natthebrat]

If God exists and really is like he is described in the Bible, I'd prefer Hell over Heaven. God is the ACTUAL bad guy in the Bible for countless reasons.

 

[Localized]

Nonsense, I'm really glad I don't believe in dogmatic fairytales and or that I have such bad daddy issues that I need some entity to dictate and judge my life.

I thin your generalizing how you feel about this topic, there is so much depth and nuance to religion and trying to water it down to "daddy issues" is a bit derogatory of good faithful Christians, maybe you've had bad experiences but that doesn't mean that you should insult religion as a whole

If God exists and really is like he is described in the Bible, I'd prefer Hell over Heaven. God is the ACTUAL bad guy in the Bible for countless reasons.

I understand that a majority of people see the old testament actions of God and paint them as cruel, but I urge you to not take a black and white perspective on this, it's a complex topic and painting an omniscient being above anything we understand as a trope "bad guy" is a bit misinformed, I can't argue about this fully because I am not qualified but don't take one sided standpoints on complex topics

If God exists and really is like he is described in the Bible, I'd prefer Hell over Heaven. God is the ACTUAL bad guy in the Bible for countless reasons.

I understand that a majority of people see the old testament actions of God and paint them as cruel, but I urge you to not take a black and white perspective on this, it's a complex topic and painting an omniscient being above anything we understand as a trope "bad guy" is a bit misinformed, I can't argue about this fully because I am not qualified but don't take one sided standpoints on complex topics

 

[avoid]

If there was a hell then I would not CTB if I felt the urge to CTB.

Do you really want to be miserable forever in hell instead of feeling miserable on Earth for ~80 years with the chance of feeling better again?

 

[loterius]

tHERE WILL BE NO MUCH AFTERLIFE.

 

[samsara_96]

I am currently trying to figure out if there is really an afterlife and if there is, how it works. I will provide some detail below but it seems to me that both a wise God and a just after life exist. However, I don't think that there is hell and heaven in afterlife. We either reincarnate or become a part of oneness which we came from.

Shortly, Kant's Third Critique managed to convince me that there is a wise god because eventually human-beings, considered collectively, will reach the highest good on earth. And only time can tell whether the highest good on earth is being created through complete catastrophe (the scenario in which the modern civilizations are completely destroyed and a few remaining isolated communities continue their quiet life) or peace (the scenario in which bad people apologize and we come up with a new economic system that makes everyone equally happy). However, both of these scenarios, one of which must be true based on the current trajectory of the environment, imply that the highest good on earth must be realized sooner or later, which can be used to give a moral proof for the existence of God.

Now on to the highest good at the individual level, I disagree with Kant that each person will reach the highest good in an Abrahamic religion style afterlife. Kant thinks that everyone will eventually reach the highest good at the individual level even if sinners reach it later than non-sinners, but, then that would contradict the motive of contributing to the highest good on earth. In fact, that would justify the current utilitarianism approach to economics. Everyone would be justified in behaving in the most morally corrupt way possible to maximize their gains because they will be rewarded in an afterlife anyway. (Just to provide some context, Kant's God do not punish people in hell eternally. There is an end to the duration spent in hell because our sins are finite and God is fair). What Kant needs to establish instead is to confine people to this world so that everyone is affected by their own action until the day a truly happy society is established. Hence, his argument needs either one or two of the following: a system similar to reincarnation which is often found in Buddhism and Hinduism or show that we are all one and this earthly life is just an illusion and hurting someone means hurting everyone else. Through doing this, highest good at the individual and societal level would become the necessary and sufficient condition of each other and the moral proof for God and afterlife would be completed.

Last but not least, CTB must be justified in some cases considering that God is wise. So, I don't think that CTB is necessarily a sin, according to a wise God, unless it was used as a means to run away from paying the price of a terrible crime.

 

[Glandular]

There is only one hell ... the one we live in now.

 

[Localized]

the only hell that exist is the evil universe when we die we're either nothing forever or rebirth

I am currently trying to figure out if there is really an afterlife and if there is, how it works. I will provide some detail below but it seems to me that both a wise God and a just after life exist. However, I don't think that there is hell and heaven in afterlife. We either reincarnate or become a part of oneness which we came from.

Shortly, Kant's Third Critique managed to convince me that there is a wise god because eventually human-beings, considered collectively, will reach the highest good on earth. And only time can tell whether the highest good on earth is being created through complete catastrophe (the scenario in which the modern civilizations are completely destroyed and a few remaining isolated communities continue their quiet life) or peace (the scenario in which bad people apologize and we come up with a new economic system that makes everyone equally happy). However, both of these scenarios, one of which must be true based on the current trajectory of the environment, imply that the highest good on earth must be realized sooner or later, which can be used to give a moral proof for the existence of God.

Now on to the highest good at the individual level, I disagree with Kant that each person will reach the highest good in an Abrahamic religion style afterlife. Kant thinks that everyone will eventually reach the highest good at the individual level even if sinners reach it later than non-sinners, but, then that would contradict the motive of contributing to the highest good on earth. In fact, that would justify the current utilitarianism approach to economics. Everyone would be justified in behaving in the most morally corrupt way possible to maximize their gains because they will be rewarded in an afterlife anyway. (Just to provide some context, Kant's God do not punish people in hell eternally. There is an end to the duration spent in hell because our sins are finite and God is fair). What Kant needs to establish instead is to confine people to this world so that everyone is affected by their own action until the day a truly happy society is established. Hence, his argument needs either one or two of the following: a system similar to reincarnation which is often found in Buddhism and Hinduism or show that we are all one and this earthly life is just an illusion and hurting someone means hurting everyone else. Through doing this, highest good at the individual and societal level would become the necessary and sufficient condition of each other and the moral proof for God and afterlife would be completed.

Last but not least, CTB must be justified in some cases considering that God is wise. So, I don't think that CTB is necessarily a sin, according to a wise God, unless it was used as a means to run away from paying the price of a terrible crime.

Wow this is a lot to cover and i'm not too scholary on religion at the moment, just a few talks with parents and priests, but oh my god thanks for this. This clears up a lot of my questions and give me things I can ask my local priests, I'm gonna ask about some of this stuff and maybe post responses here, but this is some some great stuff and I hope to learn more about it.

I am currently trying to figure out if there is really an afterlife and if there is, how it works. I will provide some detail below but it seems to me that both a wise God and a just after life exist. However, I don't think that there is hell and heaven in afterlife. We either reincarnate or become a part of oneness which we came from.

Shortly, Kant's Third Critique managed to convince me that there is a wise god because eventually human-beings, considered collectively, will reach the highest good on earth. And only time can tell whether the highest good on earth is being created through complete catastrophe (the scenario in which the modern civilizations are completely destroyed and a few remaining isolated communities continue their quiet life) or peace (the scenario in which bad people apologize and we come up with a new economic system that makes everyone equally happy). However, both of these scenarios, one of which must be true based on the current trajectory of the environment, imply that the highest good on earth must be realized sooner or later, which can be used to give a moral proof for the existence of God.

Now on to the highest good at the individual level, I disagree with Kant that each person will reach the highest good in an Abrahamic religion style afterlife. Kant thinks that everyone will eventually reach the highest good at the individual level even if sinners reach it later than non-sinners, but, then that would contradict the motive of contributing to the highest good on earth. In fact, that would justify the current utilitarianism approach to economics. Everyone would be justified in behaving in the most morally corrupt way possible to maximize their gains because they will be rewarded in an afterlife anyway. (Just to provide some context, Kant's God do not punish people in hell eternally. There is an end to the duration spent in hell because our sins are finite and God is fair). What Kant needs to establish instead is to confine people to this world so that everyone is affected by their own action until the day a truly happy society is established. Hence, his argument needs either one or two of the following: a system similar to reincarnation which is often found in Buddhism and Hinduism or show that we are all one and this earthly life is just an illusion and hurting someone means hurting everyone else. Through doing this, highest good at the individual and societal level would become the necessary and sufficient condition of each other and the moral proof for God and afterlife would be completed.

Last but not least, CTB must be justified in some cases considering that God is wise. So, I don't think that CTB is necessarily a sin, according to a wise God, unless it was used as a means to run away from paying the price of a terrible crime.

Wow this is a lot to cover and i'm not too scholary on religion at the moment, just a few talks with parents and priests, but oh my god thanks for this. This clears up a lot of my questions and give me things I can ask my local priests, I'm gonna ask about some of this stuff and maybe post responses here, but this is some some great stuff and I hope to learn more about it.