Discussion A question on empathy

[aviation]

Let me ask you a question, because I find it interesting to ask people questions that go deeper, or that require a deeper response, and I have no reason not to. If you had no concept of physical pain, no reference point, and someone else was stabbed, or punched, and telling you, whimpering, about their pain, how much they're in pain... how would you feel? What would you feel? What COULD you feel? What would there be? Would there be nothing? Would you, be able, to get to the pain of someone, without having experienced it? Is the only pain there is to you, the pain that you can see, in yourself?

 

[FuneralCry]

Yes, I think you can only comprehend how much pain somebody is in, if you have experienced something similar. You can try to be empathetic and understanding, but I think it is impossible to fully understand and feel how much pain someone is in, just by seeing them and hearing them talk. Pain is invisible to those on the outside. I think I would feel upset at seeing somebody else distressed, so even if I had no concept of physical pain, I wouldn't just feel nothing.

 

[suisuiforum]

As someone with a blunted affect and naturally low empathy, I already don't *feel* much for other people when they're in pain. If they explain what they're experiencing, or if there are clear signs pointing at their suffering, I'd cognitively understand that they've been in an unpleasant situation, but it doesn't affect my own emotional state to a large extent. Maybe it would be upsetting for a fleeting moment if it's extreme, or if they've described it in graphic detail, but I'm usually able to just compartmentalize it as something that doesn't affect me. Like you said, I've had to use reference points in order to better understand what other people undergo, and even then, I've often had very different responses from other people to the same emotional stimuli, so it's a combination of general concepts and careful reasoning.

 

[Makko]

I can easily understand people's emotions, put myself in their place and imagine what their experience is like.

But it's important to distinguish empathy from sympathy. This is too often misunderstood. Me understanding your pain doesn't automatically compel me to help you or to be your friend. If I don't happen to actually like you (sympathy), it instad makes it easier for me to manipulate you because I know exactly what you're thinking and feeling.

 

[aviation]

I can easily [...] put myself in their place and imagine what their experience is like.

Without having a reference point for its applied weight, yourself? Is it more an abstract 'surface-level' understanding, then? Especially since you used the word 'imagine'. Or 'resonance' of their feelings/direction/the weight of this?

 

[Makko]

Without having a reference point for its applied weight, yourself? Is it more an abstract 'surface-level' understanding, then? Especially since you used the word 'imagine'. Or 'resonance' of their feelings/direction/the weight of this?

I have an extremely vivid imagination and can make people feel understood even if I have no personal reference point. This helps me a lot in my work so it's not just a theory.

 

[aviation]

I have an extremely vivid imagination and can make people feel understood even if I have no personal reference point.

So, without a reference point, you can't go in-depth in regards to the actual, applied, true weight of the experience itself?

 

[Makko]

So, without a reference point, you can't go in-depth in regards to the actual, applied, true weight of the experience itself?

I'm not sure what this means. Even people who have been subjected the same circumstances experience them differently. I've personally experienced many things that should have left a last emotional impact on me, but didn't, because of the specifics of my own mind. If I related some of these things to an empathetic and more sensitive person, they would likely be more affected than me, despite not having the first-hand experience. Empathy is about putting yourself in another person's shoes, not about transforming yourself into the other person and experiencing things as they would.

 

[aviation]

Empathy is about putting yourself in another person's shoes, not about transforming yourself into the other person and experiencing things as they would.

Hence the conditional of not having a direct understanding of the experience itself, or how it even can apply itself. That would be where resonance comes in, perhaps. Mental weight, as opposed to comparison.
Thank you for answering. :)

 

[Mr2005]

It's a good question and not one that's really possible to answer. With the lack of empathy some people show you'd think they'd never experienced it themselves but it could be if they're suffering they want everyone else to

 

[goldenvirginia]

It's a good question and not one that's really possible to answer. With the lack of empathy some people show you'd think they'd never experienced it themselves but it could be if they're suffering they want everyone else to

I've witnessed very blatant acts of lacking empathy on here. The comments some people make are just so brutal. I get sometimes bluntness is necessary, but to be so dismissive and aggressive towards someone seems very unnecessary. Every person on this forum has reached a point of despair, to then be spoken to like your a piece of shit leaves me speechless to be honest. Empathy in whatever degree costs nothing and takes very little energy, but speaks volumes of what kind of person you are.

 

[oliviahurts]

No I wouldn't be able to empathise with their pain. I probably wouldn't feel very sad that they were in pain. If I did feel sad, I'd probably donate a bit of money to a relevant charity to make my self feel better.

 

[Mr2005]

I've witnessed very blatant acts of lacking empathy on here. The comments some people make are just so brutal. I get sometimes bluntness is necessary, but to be so dismissive and aggressive towards someone seems very unnecessary. Every person on this forum has reached a point of despair, to then be spoken to like your a piece of shit leaves me speechless to be honest. Empathy in whatever degree costs nothing and takes very little energy, but speaks volumes of what kind of person you are.

It wasn't me was it? I can be blunt when I think someone's an idiot but that doesn't mean I'm not empathic. Actually caring about someone means being honest even if they're not going to like it or me.

 

[goldenvirginia]

It wasn't me was it? I can be blunt when I think someone's an idiot but that doesn't mean I'm not empathic. Actually caring about someone means being honest even if they're not going to like it or me.

Lol…no it wasn't you. Someone else. Believe me I can be blunt too and sarcastic. I just despise people being unnecessarily nasty that's all.

 

[netrezven]

Sometimes it's more painfull to see others in pain, than having the same pain to you only. Have seen and experienced that.
When we talk to money and people getting poorer, based on their choices and actions - i really don't care.
When we talk about older people - that's nature's best option in human life, and it's never guarantied.
When we talk about accidens, killing, war and so on...i'm f*ckin afraid of that, i do feel some pain over that stuff started all over the world for not a single meaningful reason.
It's more like i'm scared from people in such a way, that i made myself and my business extrelemely passive agressive.
When it's about what's fair or right for people, it never goes without casualties. I'm lucky i don't have experienced what will force me to cross that line. to deside what's fair for others.
And also i don't think that whatever happens to me or my family, someone else will care a bit. I don't see how that will be helpful to anyone.

And wanna add, that there are people who thrive by other's tragedy and live to cause those tragedies. The irony is that, the emphatic sociaty chooses them as leaders, allows them to do it, and find excuses or goes on with eye closed and no questions asked.

 

[insomuchpain316]

As someone who lives with extremely uncomfortable sensations and pain, people can in no way shape or form relate to it. Otherwise they would have suicided themselves at this point if they feel what I feel. The reason that euthanasia is not legal IMO is because most of the people living are healthy and feeling well. They in no way can relate to the way you feel and so think selfishly because they are well that you should go on.

 

[stilldreaming]

Let me ask you a question, because I find it interesting to ask people questions that go deeper, or that require a deeper response, and I have no reason not to. If you had no concept of physical pain, no reference point, and someone else was stabbed, or punched, and telling you, whimpering, about their pain, how much they're in pain... how would you feel? What would you feel? What COULD you feel? What would there be? Would there be nothing? Would you, be able, to get to the pain of someone, without having experienced it? Is the only pain there is to you, the pain that you can see, in yourself?

So to make sure I understand this correctly - if I couldn't feel physical pain, would I still be able to empathize when I see others in physical pain?

I should think so. I am naturally (overly) empathetic. All my life I've always naturally 'translated' for myself the misfortune of others into terms I can understand. Before I fell in love and thought such things weren't possible for me, I really struggled to understand relationships and feelings of friends eg in breakups, but I could still understand their pain.

Even for physical pain - I'm a female, but ya know there's a very specific pain a man can feel. Sooo I've imagined to myself: all those times I've accidentally bashed super hard a small, specific spot on my elbow / knee / head etc and it just hurts so much I literally feel nauseated (in addition to the almost blinding pain)? I imagine that's what it's like for dudes when their manly parts gets bashed, but somehow worse. And voila, empathy :)

 

[aviation]

Before I fell in love and thought such things weren't possible for me, I really struggled to understand relationships and feelings of friends eg in breakups, but I could still understand their pain.
[...]
Even for physical pain - I'm a female, but ya know there's a very specific pain a man can feel. [...]

Interesting. Do you feel this is more comparison-based, then (loss, even if you don't know a breakup specifically; physical pain in yourself, even if you don't know the specific sensation), or on a level of emotional resonance, so to speak? As in, do you feel where they are, or do you compare to reference points within your own experience?

 

[stilldreaming]

Interesting. Do you feel this is more comparison-based, then (loss, even if you don't know a breakup specifically; physical pain in yourself, even if you don't know the specific sensation), or on a level of emotional resonance, so to speak? As in, do you feel where they are, or do you compare to reference points within your own experience?

Comparison or emotional resonance? Well, both I reckon. The way I think about it: all pain is processed in the brain. So, emotional or physical, I kinda see it originating in the same place. At the root of it, it's our brain telling us something is not right, and we need to do something about it.

If I couldn't think in terms of physical pain I would looking for comparable levels of emotional. So eg, if someone broke their leg, maybe that's the equivalent of multiple people trying to purposefully being nasty to me / trying to hurt me. errr not trying to equate those two things - this is off the top of my head, but in an alternate reality where I had never felt physical pain, I would have more time to think of an appropriate um 'exchange rate' if you will.

Not sure if this is relevant to your question, I've experienced emotional pain so unbearable that I would physically hurt myself (cutting). To ahem 'cut' through through the emotional pain, I would cut myself quite deeply to distract myself from the emotional pain. So in that situation, for example, physical pain was preferable to emotional pain. I traded one type of pain for another. If I didn't have the option of physical pain, I'm sure I would've looked for something to do to myself emotionally, perhaps something to severely shock or gross myself out to distract myself from my thoughts.

Sorry if I didn't answer your question :(