A pro-life society is a society that guilt-trips and gaslights pro-choice people into the 'game of life'

[TAW122]

Another good post I have found on TTG is by the user u/RichBluebird stating how society makes suicidal and pro-choice people feel bad about leaving and for disliking the game of 'life'.

But life makes us feel bad about so many things already. How am I supposed to feel bad towards the idea that it will stop? I felt that therapists wanted me to feel bad about it, to be angry about how messed up my life is, to think of myself as a victim and blame everyone else. Why? Why not say: It's okay. It will be okay. It won't last forever. You can leave this place.

So one day it will be over, and maybe I can look back at my life, laugh at it, and think, it wasn't fun, but it was interesting I guess. They hate when I laugh about it. They want you to cry about life problems. But why? No one cares. There's just us and the universe. It doesn't laugh at us but it doesn't have sympathy either.

I've wanted to die since I was a kid, but I lived 28 years for my family, because "mom would be sad" and suicide is bad and blah. Isn't it ridiculous? I went through school, college, university, to make them happy, and it's still not enough. I wish there was a civilized and socially acceptable way to leave life, but there isn't. No matter how hard you try to do everything right, as soon as you want to die, you're the villain, or mentally defective, or whatever, and people still want to convince you that life is GOOD and you whole life experience and feelings are WRONG and mistaken. Why? Why not leave it be?

I feel like this is what I've thought as well. I'm about close to him in age, albeit slightly older by just a bit more than a year. Anyways, I share his sentiments and some of the replies are also on point as well.

u/vrbz said:

they only make it through their own misery by distracting themselves with anything they can, so they guilt trip everyone else to stay in the same boat, because they are so afraid of loneliness, loss and death. they are the weak, who cause all the misery by their ego trips, while we are the ones strong enough to admit this worlds unpleasant truths, which is the first step to solve the problem, but its displayed the other way around, because that whole natalism trip became a pretty strong, unscrupulous force that does anything to hide whats true and cultivate what maintains its weird sadistic theatre.

as well as this (shown below) in response to how society, family, and people are selfish:

its called projection and the dumber a person is, the more they do it. Of course suicide is the least selfish act, because its fundamentally justified by having been born without consent and its the only act after which no "self" remains to have any result from it. Its removing the self - the part that makes everything else selfish. Signing up others for suffering and death just to be less bored, is the most selfish act; the epitome of selfishness. Generally its always more selfish to put our own self over someone elses than to just mind our own business instead. I mean thats obvious

u/Alec1378 also made a good point too, especially about how society automatically labels anyone who wishes to 'die' as 'mentally ill' just as a way to discredit and delegitimize anothers' point of view or claim.

Fully agree with you, the world is trying so bad to make us feel bad and guilty about wanting the life to be over. But that's messed up. The second you want to die then there must be something wrong with you. It doesn't matter how bad and full of suffering your life is or how indifferent you are to it and how boring everything is to you the second you would rather die than go on then you are suddenly defective in some way. That's so messed up! And there should be socially acceptable way to leave it. I imagine in a intelligent society there would be.

All in all, I think from a government's point of view, it's to keep the system going, generate revenue through work, taxes, consumption, to fuel an unjust, cruel, and evil system. From religious and humanists point of view, also a selfish collective, wish to do everything that can benefit their interests (the interests of the collective) even at the cost of an individual's autonomy.

 

[Close_to_freedom]

The interesting thing is that view is also applied to people who are on disability (like me). I'm a leech. What does society gain by giving me its tax dollars? Euthanasia should be an option for people on disability. We have no quality of life and contribute nothing.

 

[TAW122]

The interesting thing is that view is also applied to people who are on disability (like me). I'm a leech. What does society gain by giving me its tax dollars? Euthanasia should be an option for people on disability. We have no quality of life and contribute nothing.

Outside of economic factors, I suppose it is the strong religious, pro-life (secular humanist) influences still strong in this world, in the US, and even in many nations around the world. I suppose the suicidal are really kept alive similar to that of jesters in a circus (in this case, the circus is 'society' and it's members are in the audience, the seats and all). As vile as society is, I believe we are kept alive partly for others to use as a scapegoat and as a whipping post, to be made an example of.

 

[faust]

Pro-life ideology is like a financial pyramid. You need to convince others to come there and you get something for a referral. And like it happens with every pyramid, only those win much who are first. Now drawing a parallel with governments. Who is winning in such a case? People? Pro-lifers? No, those who started...

 

[Hhhhhh]

The interesting thing is that view is also applied to people who are on disability (like me). I'm a leech. What does society gain by giving me its tax dollars? Euthanasia should be an option for people on disability. We have no quality of life and contribute nothing.

i think society should make more accomodations for the disabled. however i also think they should have the right to end it if they feel like their disabilty severely impedes their quality of life. i think people want to believe anyone can survive if they just think positively enough. unfortunately they dont realize that there are lots of barriers preventing that and that sometimes people would rather just duck out and thats ok

 

[EmbraceOfTheVoid]

i think society should make more accomodations for the disabled. however i also think they should have the right to end it if they feel like their disabilty severely impedes their quality of life. i think people want to believe anyone can survive if they just think positively enough. unfortunately they dont realize that there are lots of barriers preventing that and that sometimes people would rather just duck out and thats ok

People need to stop being so naive. I don't know how it is in other countries but I assume that it's more or less the same as in the US where financial help is primarily reserved for people that are physically disabled. Outside of maybe Schizophrenia your odds of getting on disability here on anything less are extremely slim and often require years of time as well as a lawyer. Not only that but you have to keep proving your disability to stay on the benefits, you lose the benefits if you attempt working, and the money itself is roughly like $6000 which is not even enough to cover rent in a crime infested area much less being enough to actually LIVE on. It's a system that forces you to carry the stigma of a "mental illness" label just to stay in a state of perpetual poverty anyway.

Our society unfortunately doesn't care about disabled people and a system like the one above only pushes people closer to suicide. This world is insane because people refuse to provide the resources for us to live but will go out of their way to force you to live anyways while censoring humane suicide methods.

 

[itsamadworld]

Modern medicine and globalization are largely to blame. Personally, mother's should have to feel the loss of some their children, like they did in days past, because mother's are way too entitled today.
Tribal members used to have more say if women were to breed new life into the society. Today, the tax payer is forced to pay for other people's children, and WE get absolutely zero say in whether or not that child should be introduced into this already overpopulated system in the first place. In addition to that, we get zero say into how that child is raised......

THE pro-lifers will GUILT OR GASLIGHT society by saying stuff like " it takes a village to raise our children." REALLY? What I think MANY of you modern-mothers are trying to say is, "Society, give us your money, and we alone will decide! And then we'll blame teachers and other public servers when are children act out, rather than accept responsibility that we are terrible mothers who should not have had so many!" But trust me all, this Village Idiot here, I don't get any say-so in anything, but just to be the pro-lifers lap dog! To sit, or roll on their command ....Pro-lifer says "it takes a village"...haha..make me laugh!

 

[262653]

I find it amusing that medical workers are enforcing life while suicidals are trying to get rid of it. Both are doing so because otherwise they'd have to face unpleasant consequences. Fear of punishment by local authorities (law) on the one side vs. fear of bad things life can or will bring on the other. We are happened to be natural enemies in an environment modulated by the people in power, who themselves probably weren't self-motivated to do so, so... you know, tragedy.

It's classic, like rapist vs. victim, or lion vs. antelope. When one has more physical power, the other one has to rely on deception, avoidance, and other tricks roundabout.

 

[Hhhhhh]

Modern medicine and globalization are largely to blame. Personally, mother's should have to feel the loss of some their children, like they did in days past, because mother's are way too entitled today.
Tribal members used to have more say if women were to breed new life into the society. Today, the tax payer is forced to pay for other people's children, and WE get absolutely zero say in whether or not that child should be introduced into this already overpopulated system in the first place. In addition to that, we get zero say into how that child is raised......

THE pro-lifers will GUILT OR GASLIGHT society by saying stuff like " it takes a village to raise our children." REALLY? What I think MANY of you modern-mothers are trying to say is, "Society, give us your money, and we alone will decide! And then we'll blame teachers and other public servers when are children act out, rather than accept responsibility that we are terrible mothers who should not have had so many!" But trust me all, this Village Idiot here, I don't get any say-so in anything, but just to be the pro-lifers lap dog! To sit, or roll on their command ....Pro-lifer says "it takes a village"...haha..make me laugh!

sorry but this is kind of a bad take my dude. the problems in society literally have nothing to do with mothers having birth control or "globalism". first of all in the past nobody gave two shits about their children because our modern conception of children barely existed back then. in the olden days children were just more work fodder or treated like small adults. nowadays we have way more complex views on childhood, children etc even in places most people would consider third world BECAUSE of modernization and globalization. you say mothers are making all the bad choices in how a kid is raised but thats not true. a lot of it is because of institutions not treating people properly or putting them in situations where theyre deprived of proper resources to properly raise their kid. an inner city mom who hits her kids does it just because she's a inherently a bad individual it's because she had systemic issues stacked against her. To the kid she hits though i can definitely understand they might just feel resentment but the truth is that too a large extent its systemic issues forcing people to act like this (generational poverty, sexism, bad education options). doesnt mean nobody has personal responsibility (we need to act as if free will exists to an extent in order to survive as ego based people) but it does mean its way more nuanced then selfish welfare mom's or w/e

 

[itsamadworld]

sorry but this is kind of a bad take my dude. the problems in society literally have nothing to do with mothers having birth control or "globalism". first of all in the past nobody gave two shits about their children because our modern conception of children barely existed back then. in the olden days children were just more work fodder or treated like small adults. nowadays we have way more complex views on childhood, children etc even in places most people would consider third world BECAUSE of modernization and globalization. you say mothers are making all the bad choices in how a kid is raised but thats not true. a lot of it is because of institutions not treating people properly or putting them in situations where theyre deprived of proper resources to properly raise their kid. an inner city mom who hits her kids does it just because she's a inherently a bad individual it's because she had systemic issues stacked against her. To the kid she hits though i can definitely understand they might just feel resentment but the truth is that too a large extent its systemic issues forcing people to act like this (generational poverty, sexism, bad education options). doesnt mean nobody has personal responsibility (we need to act as if free will exists to an extent in order to survive as ego based people) but it does mean its way more nuanced then selfish welfare mom's or w/e

In days past, not as many children survived!! Also, women collectively in tribes would limit family size to a baby ever 4 -6 years to preserve resources. It wasn't until agricultural times, when they needed more laborers, did mothers start having more children ( an average of a child every 2 years). Even then, the children would die due to disease, not as good sanitary conditions, no vaccinations, not aware of how the spread of disease occurred...etc....

The reason we have OVERPOPULATION today, is due to globalization and modern medicine, and other factors, but those being major players!! How can you deny that? Never in recorded history has there ever been so many people on this planet!!!........ That was the point of my post, that mothers are entitled today, because they don't have to deal with the loss of children. Also, globalization- with mass food production- food can be sent all over the world- even in climates where that type of food doesn't grow, or in days past would not have existed to them! ! I think you need to re-read it.....

 

[Cashewmilk]

The interesting thing is that view is also applied to people who are on disability (like me). I'm a leech. What does society gain by giving me its tax dollars? Euthanasia should be an option for people on disability. We have no quality of life and contribute nothing.

Totally. I'm nothing but a burden. People call us leeches and lazy, so why don't they just give us access to euthanasia?


And to the OP, I'm glad you posted this. I realized this a few years ago, the older I get the more I learn. It's amazing that my peers and my elders still don't know all of this. I'm a high school drop out with an iq of around 118, why does my mind go so deep and why am I able to see the truth, while billions of others are completely clueless? I think it has a lot to do with religion, and the human ego. They have no humility, and plus they're too busy being wage slaves and breeders, who even has time to ponder nowadays?

 

[Hhhhhh]

ov

Oh, well in days past, not as many children survived. Also, women collectively in tribes would limit family size to a baby ever 4 -6 years to preserve resources. It wasn't until agricultural times, when they needed more laborers, did mothers start having more children ( an average of a child every 2 years). Even then, the children would die due to disease, not as good sanitary conditions, no vaccinations, not aware of how the spread of disease occurred...etc....The reason we have OVERPOPULATION today, is due to globalization and modern medicine. How can you deny that? Never in recorded history has there ever been so many people on this planet! That was the point of my post that mothers are entitled today because they don't have to deal with the loss of children. I think you need to re-read it.....

overpopulation is meaningless we have enough resources to manage the amount of people who exist just fine its the mismanagement of how they're relocated that matters.

 

[itsamadworld]

We

ov

overpopulation is meaningless we have enough resources to manage the amount of people who exist just fine its the mismanagement of how they're relocated that matters.

Humans aren't very good at sharing, it's called the "selfish gene" for a reason, an it exists in all of us humans. Including mothers, some, who selfishly has children to fullfill her own lusts, rather than concern for the "welfare" of the children....We have all seen these mothers on youtube -with 15 kids, -complaining...... How the heck (with human nature being as it is) do you propose to "manage ALL these supposed resources" properly? lol Not to mention, the environment is getting pretty unstable due to people wanting it all!....Not just in the west, but everywhere! How can we ALL live this 'Hollywood lifestyle?' The answer is.....We can't....

 

[rhiino]

overpopulation is meaningless we have enough resources to manage the amount of people who exist just fine its the mismanagement of how they're relocated that matters.

That is a fallacy, the world does not have enough resources to maintain such a high number of humans without wrecking the ecosystem. Furthermore the planet does not belong us. Other creatures also not only have the right to live in their natural habitat, but are also needed for the ecosystem to thrive. It is a balance that has been established over millions of years that is now completely out of order due to modern medicine and fossil fuel.

 

[Hhhhhh]

That is a fallacy, the world does not have enough resources to maintain such a high number of humans without wrecking the ecosystem. Furthermore the planet does not belong us. Other creatures also not only have the right to live in their natural habitat, but are also needed for the ecosystem to thrive. It is a balance that has been established over millions of years that is now completely out of order due to modern medicine and fossil fuel.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/20...rated-concern-climate-change-world-population

The Myth That Our Planet Faces an Overpopulation Crisis | Barry Brownstein

In their book, "Empty Planet: The Shock of Global Population Decline," Darrell Bricker and John Ibbitson have startling facts for those who believe the population will continue to explode.

fee.org

 

[itsamadworld]

That is a fallacy, the world does not have enough resources to maintain such a high number of humans without wrecking the ecosystem. Furthermore the planet does not belong us. Other creatures also not only have the right to live in their natural habitat, but are also needed for the ecosystem to thrive. It is a balance that has been established over millions of years that is now completely out of order due to modern medicine and fossil fuel.

That is GREAT point. Other NON-human animals should have the right to exist! How selfish of a species we are! I watched this 60 minutes thing, about this dude who photographed over 500 (not exact sure on the number, but a lot) animals on the extinction list. He said this might be the last time we ever capture them alive. It was just eye opening, and i sobbed, actually, after watching that...i admit it..

 

[Hhhhhh]

We

Humans aren't very good at sharing, it's called the "selfish gene" for a reason, an it exists in all of us humans. Including mothers, some, who selfishly has children to fullfill her own lusts, rather than concern for the "welfare" of the children....We have all seen these mothers on youtube -with 15 kids, -complaining...... How the heck (with human nature being as it is) do you propose to "manage ALL these supposed resources" properly? lol Not to mention, the environment is getting pretty unstable due to people wanting it all!....Not just in the west, but everywhere! How can we ALL live this 'Hollywood lifestyle?' The answer is.....We can't....

humans are fine at sharing if we're not scared and pissed off. you can argue how far our altruism can stretch but we are but we're social animals and get along fine if we're given access to things that make us mentally healthy.

That is GREAT point. Other NON-human animals should have the right to exist! How selfish of a species we are! I watched this 60 minutes thing, about this dude who photographed over 500 (not exact sure on the number, but a lot) animals on the extinction list. He said this might be the last time we ever capture them alive. It was just eye opening, and i sobbed, actually, after watching that...i admit it..

i think animals have a right to exist but they should always be secondary to humans. we're just inherently superior and its good to think of ourselves that way otherwise you get into misanthropy which is stupid. also extinctions can be prevented through (again) better resource management unrelated to overpopulation

 

[itsamadworld]

humans are fine at sharing if we're not scared and pissed off. you can argue how far our altruism can stretch but we are but we're social animals and get along fine if we're given access to things that make us mentally healthy.

You must be a pro-lifer. Not into your type. I come on here, to get away from your type..... Why don't you go on Quora, or most all other types of social media, in your safe-spaces, which this pro-life world creates in abundance for your type.....There, you can make all the excuses that you like-for having children,-and society will be listening to you cry about how your titties hurt from the breast-feeding, or the breast-pump you choose is too tight, or something like this...... You are not the type to be reasoned with, imo. And I am done talking with you. Have a great day....and best wishes....


I have ignored @Hhhhhh....I need to get some stuff done around my place, and i don't have time or the energy for that Windbg......so if someone could take over, I'm cool with that...Peace....

 

[Hhhhhh]

You must be a pro-lifer. Not into your type. I come on here, to get away from your type..... Why don't you go on Quora, in your safe-space, where you can make all the excuses that you like-for having children,-and society listening to you cry about how your titties hurt from the breast-feeding, or the breast-pump you choose is too tight, or something like this...... You are not the type to be reasoned with, imo. And I am done talking with you. Have a great day....and best wishes....


I have ignored @Hhhhhh....I need to do some crap around my place, and i don't have time or the energy for that Windbag......so if someone could take over, I'm cool with that...Peace....

im obviously not a pro lifer i just ordered sn and am planning to kill myself via truck look at my post history. I'm just anti misanthropy because i had a time when i was happy and i know it was superior i just cant remember it due to my negative mental bias I developed and I don't think I'll get it back. idk about going on quora thats kind of a boomer place to post stuff. also you have weird hang ups against women lol

probably going to get banned for this

 

[rhiino]

@Hhhhhh Everybody that says humans should come first because they are inherently superior has disqualified himself for any further discussion. You might call yourself anti-misanthropy, but instead you are on the mere opposite, being anthropocentric.

 

[Hhhhhh]

@Hhhhhh Everybody that says humans should come first because they are inherently superior has disqualified himself for any further discussion. You might call yourself anti-misanthropy, but instead you are on the mere opposite, being anthropocentric.

maybe i was beng a little rude there I'm sorry. I just dont like it when people use other animals as a scapegoat to dislike humans. however. i do think anthropomorphization and relating animals through our own emotional and moral systems is actually how most people sympathize with animals. without it they'd have very little moral worth because theyre not really capable of those emotions or thoughts. this was a tough thing I learned but its the truth. its sad to think about for me honestly and i regret bringing it up