Venting 32 years of suicidal thoughts. Wonder how long people take to decide they want children...

[Forever Sleep]

So, this is going to be a rather anti-natilist rant that honestly- doesn't really say anything new I'm afraid. I don't mean to offend those with children either. I know all our circumstances are different and I do actually understand to an extent- why my parents had me. While I wish they hadn't- I don't feel like I can blame them.

Still- it really hit me on another thread where someone was refering to all the anguish and guilt so many of us are going through- worrying about what impact our suicides would have on those left behind (ironically on our parents a lot of the time.) They made the case that- if only people thought as hard about creating life as we are about ending it...

So- while I know this isn't an easy question to answer accurately- how long do you think your parents thought about having children vs how long have you been suicidal?

For me, my parents actually always wanted children and they had trouble conceiving. In my case, I was initially lucky that they would have raised me in a loving and stable environment. Just that fate intervened and my Mum died young. They were married over a decade, so I suppose let's be generous and say they wanted children for that long too. I've been suicidal to varying degrees for 32 years. So that's 10 years of them planning to 32 years of me regretting my life.

Maybe this is all just a pointless exercise but I feel like suicide is so often seen as some impulsive act- which is 'wrong' and 'unstable' and 'mentally unhinged.' Yet birthing a child is rarely seen like that- even when it is unplanned and sadly unwanted. I suppose because birth is more natural than suicide. Still- haven't we come further than that?!! We're THINKING animals afterall. Doesn't quality of life matter?!!

I honestly don't know where I'm going with this. I don't think everyone who births a child is wrong or that children who come from very difficult backgrounds will certainly end up suicidal.

Still, I guess it's just my frustration that life- literally any life is seen as good and rational whereas wishing to end it- even after decades of deliberation is seen as crazy. I suppose because once the birth has happened- you have a living being- who's rights ought to be respected and valued and there's always the chance they might end up ok.

I just thought it would be interesting to see in timescale (roughly): How long do you think your parents spent thinking about your birth vs how long you have wanted to end your life?

I'd like to re-emphasize that I'm not trying to drum up hatred towards our parents (I love mine dearly.) I just think it's a curious thing that (I'm guessing) contemplating bringing an independant lifeform into the world seems (in what I see as the 'normies' perspective) to seem to warrant less thought than making the decision to end your own life. What's more- even after decades of pondering- if you do CTB- people will still likely think you were irrational and impulsive.

Of course, I guess I already know the answer- that a 'normal' brain and a reasonable life probably means you will think your child will be happy- so- they probably don't need to think about it that much. I guess my brain is just so pessimistic- I look at the world like it is and consider my genes and think that I love my unborn child too much to inflict a life upon it. (Plus, I'm ugly, so there's little for me to worry about getting pregnant .)

Thanks for reading- if you got this far...

 

[gimzero]

In same boat like your experience if you dont do ctb younger you never try it.

 

[SamTam33]

My parents put 0 years of thought into my existence.

My father said he originally denied I was his child because my mom was a virgin and he was under the impression you couldn't get pregnant the first time... This was a grown ass man with these idiotic thoughts. Not a young man or a teen.

I've always maintained that he is the stupidest person I've ever met and I sincerely mean that.

I've been suicidal for 35 years.

 

[Pluto]

It's not just a question of how many years of thought put in. In many (most?) cultures, it is assumed that people will become parents by default. Even the norm of playing with dolls in early childhood is symbolic of expressing parental instincts from year dot. Hence, procreation is viewed positively and no critical appraisal of a parent's 'qualifications' for the job are considered.

Sometimes there are very honest parents who themselves confess that they regret the choice they made, yet society does not give them a voice to prevent others from making the same mistake. They are effectively censored.

Meanwhile, narcissistic parents easily project blame for the pathological mess that they created outward, and almost always get away with it. Often it sets up a patten that will affect future generations in awful ways, but since narcissists don't feel the slightest empathy, they won't care at all. Ironically, many anti-natalist types would actually make better parents by virtue of having ethics.

It sounds like your parents were far better than most but tragedy could not be foreseen. What to do? There are also cases of parents with extremely rough backgrounds giving rise to very successful offspring. While I feel that society is wrong to actively pressure people to procreate, the outcomes are inevitably very unpredictable for all.

 

[FuneralCry]

In my case I've never even wished to exist at all, the amount of time that parents have thought about having children could in no way compare to how long I've thought about suicide.

At least to me the decision to bring life here could never be justified in anyway. There is no benefit to creating unnecessary suffering and problems which are an inevitable consequence of bringing life here and the fact is that nobody can guarantee that the person being brought into this world will wish to exist so I believe that it's better to just leave the non existent alone and to not burden them with existence.

The wish to bring life here is completely selfish, and to me the most tragic thing is how unnecessary all of this is, there was never a need to bring life here and yet life continues to exist with no straightforward way available to be free from this world. But yes, I do find it frustrating the view that society holds that life must be prolonged at all costs, rather than being seen as a choice whether to continue existing or not. We at least deserve to have our right to die accepted after being unfairly forced into this world.

 

[Forever Sleep]

In my case I've never even wished to exist at all, the amount of time that parents have thought about having children could in no way compare to how long I've thought about suicide.

At least to me the decision to bring life here could never be justified in anyway. There is no benefit to creating unnecessary suffering and problems which are an inevitable consequence of bringing life here and the fact is that nobody can guarantee that the person being brought into this world will wish to exist so I believe that it's better to just leave the non existent alone and to not burden them with existence.

The wish to bring life here is completely selfish, and to me the most tragic thing is how unnecessary all of this is, there was never a need to bring life here and yet life continues to exist with no straightforward way available to be free from this world. But yes, I do find it frustrating the view that society holds that life must be prolonged at all costs, rather than being seen as a choice whether to continue existing or not. We at least deserve to have our right to die accepted after being unfairly forced into this world.

So true- it very much feels like a roll of the dice as to whether someone will get through life without a huge amount of struggling. It seems odd to me that anyone would be willing to risk taking that chance for a being they are supposed to love. Still, I guess it's different for people who always see the world in terms of the good outweighing the bad.

 

[conflagration]

In my country at the time when I was born (35 years ago) people were just supposed to have children, nobody was thinking about it - it was just cultural obviousness. I have been suicidal on and off for 22 years.

 

[Lostandlooking]

I've been suicidal in varying degrees for about 20 years. I don't think my parents put much thought into the decision to have a child. I have actually asked my mother why she wanted children. But as often happens with my mom; she didn't really give me an answer. Just starts talking about something slightly related but never answering my question. I don't hold it against her. It's just the way she is. She does things and says things without really knowing why. When me and my sister were growing up she often told us to never have kids when we grew up. This is quite a peculiar thing to say to your kids. And indicative that bringing up me and my sister was quite hard for my mom. I never asked my dad, we don't see each other very often. (Once every couple of years) I might ask him someday.

In general it's mind boggling to me. But maybe it's quite normal not to think about it too much. Maybe the people who don't question things too much and are generally carefree are the ones who are best equipped to have a child. From where I'm standing I can't imagine consciously making the decision to create a new human being. But I understand that it's a very big wish for a lot of people. It can be very very hard on people when they want a child but can't have one. A big part of it might be biological. Though it's strange I never experienced any of that.

All in all it's a big mystery to me.

 

[yyytry]

I was born late compared to my brothers.
20 years late.

My dad always wanted a girl.
My mom told me 3 times at different points, she wish she never had me.
She died when I was 16.

My dad died some years ago. I'm mid 30s now.

Now I'm alone. Isolated.
I dream of assisted suicide for the mentally ill and depressed.
Canada, I hope you inspire the world to cull the weak. I can't wait to be killed.

 

[dreambound]

humanity's inability to give any amount of thought to the recklessness of breeding, or their
part in perpetuating suffering that is largely out of their control is indicative of generations
of conditioning & propoganda.
......to go thru the whole western school system & never have that one thing called into
question, makes it differcult for me to be optimistic about humanities future...

 

[GettingOut]

I was conceived after a high school prom. Two people just wanted to get laid. During pregnancy, they got married. As a child, I've never felt wanted and have contemplated ending my life since I can remember. As I grew up, abuse in all its forms started to suck my trust in others dry. That was about 40 years ago and nothing has changed.

Now I battle a progressive muscular disease that causes severe chronic pain. A couple of weeks ago, my mother once again blamed me for all the heartache.

Since they didn't put a lot of thought into having children, I wonder why I'm putting so much thinking into ctb. I can make life so much better for other people, SI sucks.

 

[ksp]

anti-natalism - sorry for a very long answer; feel free to ignore it, i just need to vent a bit

why do people want to have children?
because of idealism? no
because of tradition? no
because of a romantic notion? BS
because of careful planning? definitely not

most people never aim for this (especially young guys)

it's because of the built-in drive. it translates to NATURE, and more specifically: DNA

the most basic instinct in life (not just humans) - survival instinct, at any cost

DNA is built-in all species - nothing to do with romance, just the nature of life itself

survival instinct is built into each, and every molecule of your body (not just your mind)
when a myocardiac arrest – a heart attack – occurs, it is actually the cardiac myocytes entering a state of hibernation in an attempt to wait out a lack of resources

you think you'll consciously trick or bypass your SI ? think again !

the only way to peacefully bypass SI available to humans is unconsciousness (sleep, coma, unconsciousness). else, jump from a building, in front of train, drown, hang - extraordinary determination and extreme courage (most courageous act in life, and for a good reason)

back to topic:
most people don't want kids, and don't plan for kids - just simple irresponsibility and hormones

people want sex - they want the biggest pleasure in life - orgasm; the climax of life

everything else in life is meant to buildup to this:

• starting from the sperm competing to fertilize the egg, to natural abortion due to clear accidents in nature and then retry, to protection of the infant until its sexual maturity
• next step is the filter of beauty (male & female equally) - attractiveness (completely subjective - lottery of nature and surrounding society)
• then actual competition between individuals; every man alive is in a competition to attract all females (money, power, brevity, sociability, etc), females to attract all men (beauty, sexiness, nurture, intelligence, humor). men are not sexists - nature is

once this success is achieved, everything else in life is a consequence of this act by both parents
protect the egg, protect and nurture the baby, kid, young adult, etc
in this process, nature creates complete chaos - let the competition begin!
let evolution do its best through extreme competition - eliminate the weakest, reward the strongest

---

your question implies reduction of suffering - not possible
nature won't allow it - overcoming hardship and suffering is what drives progress in nature

life EQUALS suffering. suffering drives progress

what would happen if everyone on earth is happy and content? if everyone is a millionaire?
nothing. no one would strive to solve any problem, or create anything beautiful - ever
nature becomes stagnant (thinking about the dinosaurs)

life translates to pure suffering - period. contentment translates to laziness (no progress)

the perception and illusion of happiness and contentment is only meant to allow an organism to take a few very small breaks. that's all that happiness is - small breaks between maximum daily suffering that a body can take, until death

suffering is what drives innovation, inventions, creativity, art - improvements into one's comforts (egoism)
comforts and wealth will allow an individual to procreate more, to contribute to the gene pool - the more diversity in genes, the better - let life fight more, and make progress - through maximum suffering, and continue the cycle of misery onwards

ex. 1 - my own (philosophical) suffering gave birth to all this nonsense; why? because i want something; i want to escape my awareness, my consciousness - it will bring me a lot of good, too !

everything you want in life is suffering: you want to live - suffer, you want to die - suffer; if you don't want anything, you're dead inside - weak escape mechanism

ex. 2 - atomic energy / weapons - because its inventors were millionaires? i don't think so

nature needs the best fight against death - suffering and adversity brings the best in nature
an orphan is better to equipped to fight for life, than a pampered or spoiled kid
the best fight against a dead universe, and ultimately - entropy
it will never win, unfortunately - death is relentless

---

the only other aspects in your question i see:

• self filtering - too many human lives (we're completely taking all available space and resources - earth)
• philosophical aspects: i don't see the meaning of life (in general - the universe is dead, and life is an anomaly - life (and suffering) shouldn't exist

humanity will need to filter itself, sooner or later, either by eliminating the weakest members
or conquering space (eventually). the virus will need to expand

eliminating life (weak, or not) is not an option - life needs to grow, and multiply the gene pool - best chances of survival, by all organisms

consciousness of the hive will always drive every individual organism to exhaustion - every organism must do its best, until death. this is why society is reluctant to adopt self euthanasia - unacceptable; look at pro-lifers: 'life is "sacred"', 'suicide is the last resort', 'life will get better' - misguided delusions by dictators (religion, morals, etc). no, underneath (conscious, or not) - this it's simply the builtin survival instinct

the only acceptable way to allow self euthanasia in our society is based on terminal illness and/or philosophical reasoning - conscientious objector - i refuse to fight - allow me to exist peacefully, and with dignity

humanitarian reasons:

• my life is unbearable - unacceptable (no government will actually take pity on you)

economical reasons - much more acceptable, and best chance:
society will waste its resources on me

• terminal physical illness
• sever, and incurable physical or mental illness, disease or disability
• at my age, i will not only not contribute to progress, but i'm draining resources
• the sooner you allow me to die, the better for you and your resources

governments will never allow nembutal in pharmacies
they will never allow normal people to escape this prison without extreme suffering, and all best efforts - dictated by nature, not governments
choose your opinions from the above, and get ready to fight - the last fight of your life

---

as a mental exercise (for myself), for society to filter itself based on compassion and in the name of progress and evolution:

all governments will need to impose application for women (poor women - at fault for everything:) - similar to applications for mortgages

you will be allowed to give birth if you have solid proof of:

• financial stability: 1 million+ dollars/euro (in your name, not your parents)

else

• financing the child / children for the first 18 years of its life, through your hard work, by law
• sponsors: parents, with signature of responsibility
• sponsors: next immediate family: siblings, uncle/aunt, etc - signatures of responsibility
• sponsors: your spouse and his immediate family- consent, and signature of responsibility

if all fails, during the first 18 years of its life

• the government will force you and all your sponsors to pay all debts - no excuses
• if no one is left (you or your family), through a tragic accident, terminal illnesses, etc, the government will take over

if you can't meet these requirements, your application will be denied:

• if you are not pregnant, you are not allowed to get pregnant - illegal
• if you are pregnant and your application is denied - your pregnancy will be terminated - now!
• if you don't, or if you try to escape - life in prison (not death: extreme suffering to the end of your natural life)

application will only apply to women, because men are uncontrollable: they'll hump everything and anything that moves, aggressively, all their lives - nature dictated this. so only women will be forced to take the responsibility, and signed commitment from father, for a new life (and of course, men are not afraid of commitment !)

fortunately, this will never happen

---

i hate human nature. i hate nature.

i despise life, and everything it stands for - life is futile and unnecessary: all evidence points to this

life equals suffering. and for what? what's its purpose or meaning? end goal?
it wants to make progress - towards what?
the universe is meant to be dead: with life, it made a big and simple mistake

i. want. to. die !

---

ps. i'll completely understand the mods if they want to close my account, for the most boring post in human history. if any rational person reading my post completely - i probably made you irreversibly mentally ill, and i'm so sorry - a new (most painful) method of suicide