20L Nitrogen & My Car: Is it Enough? What would actually happen?

[NitrogenAfternoon]

I have a 20L Tank filled with N2 and my car. I could look into purchasing a tent as an alternative to my car, but this is what I have currently prepared.

I do not want an exit bag for my method. I would be far more comfortable just releasing the gas in my car.

If i opened the lock cover and removed the neck plug of the 20L dewar while in my car, would this even do anything at all? What would actually happen? Would enough gas be released at this point to cause asphyxiation?

A lot of the methods here have to do with exit bags, but I wonder if it's enough just with what I have prepared. Park somewhere privately/at night. Open the 20L container, recline the driver seat, and wait for death? Can it be achieved?

 

[TutMirLeid]

I'm afraid 20L would be way too little volume. Assuming that the normal amount of N2 in air is aproximately 78%, and assuming an internal volume of 3000L for a car, you already have 2340L inside, in a normal, breathable air. Adding 20L to the mix wouldn't change the concentration in any significant amout (from 78% to 78,67%). Also, would say that a normal car is not airtight unless you've heavily modified it for that purpouse. Definitely, it wouldn't work.
I would recommend another method. The kind of result you're describing could be accomplished better with Carbon Monoxide, I think, because interferes with the assimilation of oxigen in the body. But, again, no airtight space would make it difficult to happen.

 

[atre]

I'm afraid 20L would be way too little volume. Assuming that the normal amount of N2 in air is aproximately 78%, and assuming an internal volume of 3000L for a car, you already have 2340L inside, in a normal, breathable air. Adding 20L to the mix wouldn't change the concentration in any significant amout (from 78% to 78,67%). Also, would say that a normal car is not airtight unless you've heavily modified it for that purpouse. Definitely, it wouldn't work.
I would recommend another method. The kind of result you're describing could be accomplished better with Carbon Monoxide, I think, because interferes with the assimilation of oxigen in the body. But, again, no airtight space would make it difficult to happen.

I'm not saying that it will work, but as far as I know, a 20L cylinder is not actually just 20 liters of gas. It is compressed gas, which means depending on the pressure, the cylinder has much more than 20Liters of the gas. Though again, I'm definitely NOT saying that it would work. Like you said, if the car has even the slightest leak, it wouldn't work even if you had multiple 20L cylinders probably.

 

[NitrogenAfternoon]

Now I am back to being uncertain if this will work. There seems to some hope that it will, but I have nothing definitive. Perhaps it is something I will find out for myself but I am afraid of doing some damage.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

I'm not saying that it will work, but as far as I know, a 20L cylinder is not actually just 20 liters of gas. It is compressed gas, which means depending on the pressure, the cylinder has much more than 20Liters of the gas. Though again, I'm definitely NOT saying that it would work. Like you said, if the car has even the slightest leak, it wouldn't work even if you had multiple 20L cylinders probably.

Most likely it's 200 or 300 bar. That's either 4.000 or 6.000l of compressed helium. It won't work. There's a reason for the exit bag (or EEBD). And I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure cars aren't airtight. People would suffocate during a long drive.

 

[TutMirLeid]

Is it a 20L sized cylinder full of compressed air, as atre said, or is it a smaller cylinder with 20L worth of gas at atmospheric pressure?

 

[Endofpain]

W

I'm afraid 20L would be way too little volume. Assuming that the normal amount of N2 in air is aproximately 78%, and assuming an internal volume of 3000L for a car, you already have 2340L inside, in a normal, breathable air. Adding 20L to the mix wouldn't change the concentration in any significant amout (from 78% to 78,67%). Also, would say that a normal car is not airtight unless you've heavily modified it for that purpouse. Definitely, it wouldn't work.
I would recommend another method. The kind of result you're describing could be accomplished better with Carbon Monoxide, I think, because interferes with the assimilation of oxigen in the body. But, again, no airtight space would make it difficult to happen.

What? He is talking about 20L of LN2 which is equivalent to 14000L of N2 gas.

(I assume he is talking about LN2 because he mentioned a dewar)
Why shouldn't this work? Ctb with LN2 has been done. 20L of LN2 is quite a lot.

The issue lies in the small rate of evaporation of LN2 inside the vacuum isolated dewar. One would have to pour out some to speed up the process.

 

[Tommen Baratheon]

t

W

What? He is talking about 20L of LN2 which is equivalent to 14000L of N2 gas.

(I assume he is talking about LN2 because he mentioned a dewar)
Why shouldn't this work? Ctb with LN2 has been done. 20L of LN2 is quite a lot.

The issue lies in the small rate of evaporation of LN2 inside the vacuum isolated dewar. One would have to pour out some to speed up the process.

Why do you assume that? The OP clearly states: I have a 20L Tank filled with N2.

 

[NegevChina]

It seems to me like more of a low chance gamble. Most likely fail. though 20L tank at 200Bar is a lot of Nitrogen, about 4000L, and I do remember reading a case of accidental death in car transporting liquid Nitrogen tanks that were leaking.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I may be wrong, but I think one of the main potential issues with this method is that you need enough airflow to avoid explosion due to the sheer pressure, so you need to strike a balance where the LN2 can dissipate without decreasing too rapidly. So, for example if you used a tent, you would need to seal it properly and then create a perforation, and the material of the tent would need to have only a certain degree of porosity. If you used a car, you would need to seal it properly and then leave an opening for it to escape out of.

Also, the LN2 will leak out of the dewar - you will lose some of it over time, so this is something one would need to keep in mind.

 

[ShatteredSerenity]

Why do you assume that? The OP clearly states: I have a 20L Tank filled with N2.

OP later states that they have a 20 L dewar (a specialized type of tank), and they ask what would happen if they opened the lock cover and removed the neck plug. Those parts don't exist on a compressed N2 cylinder, they are only used with cryogenic LN2 dewars. So I'm assuming they're referring to liquid nitrogen.

Liquid N2 is much more dense than N2, with 1 L LN2 expanding to 700 L N2 when it evaporates. So a 20 L LN2 dewar would produce 14,000 L N2. We don't know the exact size of the car, but we can estimate that it's a midsize with a volume of about 4,000 L for passenger and cargo area combined. So it's possible in theory at least to fill the volume of the car with N2 several times over from the single 20 L LN2 dewar.

There is a case where a someone died from asphyxia due to inhalation of nitrogen with 5 LN2 tanks holding 30 L each stored in the trunk:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0379073819302865

The man had loaded 5 full LN2 tanks the night before, and when he was found unresponsive the next day 3 of the tanks were empty. Apparently the lock was defective on those 3 tanks and the contents leaked out overnight. He must have passed out and died from asphyxiation when he got in to drive the next day.

In that case 3 x 30 L LN2 tanks would expand to 63,000 L N2 which is a lot more than the single 20 L tank holds. But the tanks were leaking overnight, so there would have been a lot of time for N2 to also escape the car into the atmosphere.

At the end of the day it's unclear how much LN2 would be required, since it depends on a lot of unknown factors such as exactly how well the car is sealed up, and quickly the N2 would mix inside the car to replace O2. It's clearly technically possible to CTB this way since it's happened before accidentally, but it sounds risky to me.

 

[Eudaimonic]

I'm afraid 20L would be way too little volume. Assuming that the normal amount of N2 in air is aproximately 78%, and assuming an internal volume of 3000L for a car, you already have 2340L inside, in a normal, breathable air. Adding 20L to the mix wouldn't change the concentration in any significant amout (from 78% to 78,67%).

This makes no sense. The N2 will displace the vehicle's atmosphere. https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/safetyCalculators/Calc-cryo.htm. According to this calculator, 20L will more than displace the entire atmosphere of a 3000L space.

The kind of result you're describing could be accomplished better with Carbon Monoxide, I think, because interferes with the assimilation of oxigen in the body.

CO poisoning suffers from similar issues.

But, again, no airtight space would make it difficult to happen.

At a 1:694 expansion ratio, you do not want it to be airtight lest it explode due to rapid pressure buildup. 3000L is 3 cubic feet and one liter of liquid nitrogen becomes 24.6 cubic feet of nitrogen gas, hence why you need some kind of ventilation to prevent explosion.

 

[L'absent]

It will never work in a car.

 

[J&L383]

Now I am back to being uncertain if this will work. There seems to some hope that it will, but I have nothing definitive. Perhaps it is something I will find out for myself but I am afraid of doing some damage.

If you could evacuate the car air in a different direction (ducted somehow) than the nitrogen that is filling it, without the two mixing, then it might work but that seems logistically very very difficult. (Hence the years they worked on the Sarco device; and in that case they use liquid nitrogen). Even if you have a few percent air left it's likely a user wouldn't die, at least not quickly. As someone else said, this is more likely a scenario best suited for CO.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

co is many times more deadly than nitrogen. nitrogen is already around 78% of the air we breathe of the atmosphere. only 1.5% co in a room will quickly make a human unconscious and Death within 3 minutes.

as little as .64 % of air is Death within 15 minutes. .32% Death in 30 minutes. it's much easier to maintain .64% concentration than what is needed for nitrogen .

co can be produced from charcoal, generators, small gasoline engines, formic acid plus sufluric acid, many other ways.

 

[NitrogenAfternoon]

t

Why do you assume that? The OP clearly states: I have a 20L Tank filled with N2.

Sorry, I used these terms interchangeably as the product is listed as a "20L Liquid Nitrogen Storage Tank Static Cryogenic Container" but it like the other user mentioned where it is a dewar, a specialized tank, not the cylinder you may have had in mind. Mine has the neck plug/lock cover.

 

[NitrogenAfternoon]

W

What? He is talking about 20L of LN2 which is equivalent to 14000L of N2 gas.

(I assume he is talking about LN2 because he mentioned a dewar)
Why shouldn't this work? Ctb with LN2 has been done. 20L of LN2 is quite a lot.

The issue lies in the small rate of evaporation of LN2 inside the vacuum isolated dewar. One would have to pour out some to speed up the process.

This is another worry of mine. I've filled the dewar before and removed the lock cover to see for myself, and i worry it just wont do anything for how long it takes. I am not looking to be in my car for too long to make this work. I have considered pouring it out but I have no idea how to go about it in my car. Pouring it out directly can potentially cause surface damage to the interior, since I will be pouring it out near or even on the floor mat of the passenger seat. It may not go as intended. I do not want this car damaged too much despite my intention, if it fails it's just another cost to take care of, and if it succeeds it is still a car that could be put to use after everything is settled.

 

[Endofpain]

This is another worry of mine. I've filled the dewar before and removed the lock cover to see for myself, and i worry it just wont do anything for how long it takes. I am not looking to be in my car for too long to make this work. I have considered pouring it out but I have no idea how to go about it in my car. Pouring it out directly can potentially cause surface damage to the interior, since I will be pouring it out near or even on the floor mat of the passenger seat. It may not go as intended. I do not want this car damaged too much despite my intention, if it fails it's just another cost to take care of, and if it succeeds it is still a car that could be put to use after everything is settled.

An idea would be to heat the LN2 inside the dewar...

 

[Queen B]

I don't think that will be enough to full up the car