Your arguments against nihilism?

[platypusfan]

A suicide forum is probably the last place to ask that question but I would like some different viewpoints, especially considering how much of an impact my general view of life will have on whether or not I get myself to CTB. If this belongs in a different section move it there but I put it in recovery because I do think this idea has a large influence on my ability to recover.

I've been extremely nihilistic for most of my life, and it made me really depressed, then at some point I thought I'd give the idea of meaning another try, and after a long bit of that I ended up even deeper into a nihilistic viewpoint but this time it didn't depress me. It really, and I mean REALLY sunk in, I have started to fall into the bad habit of truly following this, as in both pain and pleasure are the same and I can do whatever I want and extremely random things will happen and my reaction can be whatever I want it to be because it doesn't matter. Or maybe this is absurdism now? I can't express the feeling well but it's sort of a strong apathy, and there are waves of euphoria and frustration, which is a completely new feeling right now. I am continuing to go back and forth between wanting to end it and not wanting to, but I can't seem to find any possibility that there is any good reason for me to continue consciousness. I'm not asking for a reason to live I am just asking if anyone has found a different way to view this topic.

 

[FujoshiNeet]

My argument against nihilism is that most nihilists are annoying af.

 

[Mirrory Me]

I haven't read a lot of his work tbh. Google just says that nihilism is: "the rejection of all religious and moral principles, in the belief that life is meaningless." While Nietzsch said: "To Live Is to Suffer, to Survive Is to Find Some Meaning in the Suffering.". I don't know if people really understood what some of his writings meant.

 

[sserafim]

Personally I'm a nihilist, but I think that absurdism could be an argument against nihilism.

 

[Pluto]

I am just asking if anyone has found a different way to view this topic.

There's a little bit of overlap with Buddhism. There, the emphasis is on Śūnyatā, translated as emptiness or nothingness.

However, this philosophy is a means of accepting the futility of the material world of impermanence and thus finding peace within it. But it doesn't stop there, since the dissolution of the arrogant, selfish, noisy, suffering human ego - which can happen while the body is still alive - will bring profound insights into the infinite nature of ultimate reality.

 

[mortuarymary]

Had to google it.

 

[Downdraft]

A suicide forum is probably the last place to ask that question

I agree, lol.

My personal advice is go find some place you feel you contribute to. Volunteer for example. Have a reason to be there by making the world better somehow. You can't be meaningless if you make things better after all.

 

[Dot]

A suicide forum is probably the last place to ask that question but I would like some different viewpoints, especially considering how much of an impact my general view of life will have on whether or not I get myself to CTB. If this belongs in a different section move it there but I put it in recovery because I do think this idea has a large influence on my ability to recover.

I've been extremely nihilistic for most of my life, and it made me really depressed, then at some point I thought I'd give the idea of meaning another try, and after a long bit of that I ended up even deeper into a nihilistic viewpoint but this time it didn't depress me. It really, and I mean REALLY sunk in, I have started to fall into the bad habit of truly following this, as in both pain and pleasure are the same and I can do whatever I want and extremely random things will happen and my reaction can be whatever I want it to be because it doesn't matter. Or maybe this is absurdism now? I can't express the feeling well but it's sort of a strong apathy, and there are waves of euphoria and frustration, which is a completely new feeling right now. I am continuing to go back and forth between wanting to end it and not wanting to, but I can't seem to find any possibility that there is any good reason for me to continue consciousness. I'm not asking for a reason to live I am just asking if anyone has found a different way to view this topic.

Slf primry argmnt hre agnst nihlsm = tht u hd sd tht nihlsm mkes u deprssd

Mst ppl wth thse knds of nihlst belifs alrdy hve undrlyng issus whch r cre8tng thm imo

 

[Downdraft]

^That's absolutely correct, lack of sense of purpose is linked to depression. And imo the cause of nihilism is either feeling impotence or not caring too much about others. Unfortunately extreme individualism is normalized so it seems like it's fine, but it's a bad way to live.

 

[HuskyD'hiver]

My response was that if nothing matters in the eyes of a nihilist, why do anything differently with your life? We can argue about what life truly means and if it matters, but there is always a theoritical chance that it will matter, which is way you should leave a positive impact in case that is true.

 

[aGoodDayToDie]

I think the argument against nihilism is incredibly simple.

Happiness.

That's what matters. It's the foundation of everything worth living for. Foundation of "meaning", the thing that the universe has none of, if it weren't for the existence of human beings' capacity to feel joy and suffering.

Humans have a complex array of desires. Everyone's a bit different. Sometimes very different. You need to explore what makes you happy.

 

[SexyIncél]

I'd say philosophies are tools. So I'd ask: what will nihilism help you achieve? And are there more effective tools?

I suppose when you wish to break free from programming, many go through a nihilistic phase. Where you negate everything you believed. But it's often not satisfying to stay there, otherwise you have nothing but your existence. The philosophy seems too minimal for most purposes

If life gives you possibilities, then death gives you no possibilities. Nihilism is a living approximation to death

Yet there's a combinatorial explosion of possibilities in even tiny spaces. May be fun to explore them

 

[MelancholyMagic]

Suffering matters.

 

[TheSpookyNameGuy]

I basically suffer from nihilism daily but i went on reddit and had to back the fuck out of there.

"What's the point of life?"

All replies, "Nothing matters, why are we speaking about this?"

Like fuck me, i just find talking about philosophy to be utterly boring..

 

[noname223]

It substanitally decreased my life quality. Everything felt meaningless. It made me sad and depressed. I wanted something to give me meaning. Everything that nihilism gave me was more pain. And I don't need that. Moreover others perceive you as miserable if you talk about your beliefs and I don't want that. I am agnostic on many philosophical questions now and rather search for answers that lift my mood or life quality. Which is certainly not equivalent to toxic positivity you find on social media.

 

[leavingthesoultrap]

It's a simplistic view and it doesn't really solve anything

 

[Meteora]

None

 

[ignoranceisblisss]

To someone who is truly deeply depressed, any retort to suicide will sound cliché and nonsensical. That's because nihilism is a very strong argument. logically speaking, you can build a very solid case for the meaningless of life. its sensible to look at all the suffering within life, and to conclude that its all just too much and life isn't worth it. Anyone who reached/has reached that conclusion in their life has simply seen through cultural constructions to see life as it truly is.

but life is not only suffering. there is more than that. to be truly human is to see the endless suffering of life, and in spite of that, to choose meaning and hope instead. to push forward even though all of our ends have already been determined along side our births. life will grind down and crush us all so deeply and completely it will be as if we never existed in the first place. but to live, in spite of that, and live well, i think that's something. all we can hope to do is find something in life meaningful enough that it justifies the suffering of existence.

edit; forgot the l in logically

 

[26mmmm]

A suicide forum is probably the last place to ask that question but I would like some different viewpoints, especially considering how much of an impact my general view of life will have on whether or not I get myself to CTB. If this belongs in a different section move it there but I put it in recovery because I do think this idea has a large influence on my ability to recover.

I've been extremely nihilistic for most of my life, and it made me really depressed, then at some point I thought I'd give the idea of meaning another try, and after a long bit of that I ended up even deeper into a nihilistic viewpoint but this time it didn't depress me. It really, and I mean REALLY sunk in, I have started to fall into the bad habit of truly following this, as in both pain and pleasure are the same and I can do whatever I want and extremely random things will happen and my reaction can be whatever I want it to be because it doesn't matter. Or maybe this is absurdism now? I can't express the feeling well but it's sort of a strong apathy, and there are waves of euphoria and frustration, which is a completely new feeling right now. I am continuing to go back and forth between wanting to end it and not wanting to, but I can't seem to find any possibility that there is any good reason for me to continue consciousness. I'm not asking for a reason to live I am just asking if anyone has found a different way to view this topic.

I think our meaning is to live, and our purpose is whatever we choose for it to be, which isn't necessarily bad.

As a miserable person who's living a miserable life, I just don't understand people who view the world as a bad place.

Just because YOUR life is horrible doesn't mean everyone elses is. Just because the world has been a bad place to YOU doesn't mean it has been a bad place for everyone else.

Sure, theres lots of bad in life, but there's lots of good too and you could almost always find a bit of good in bad.

Some people, like myself, are just unfortunate enough to barely experience the good parts of life.

In my eyes it's like calling a video game bad just because you suck at it.

Im note sure if this is related but I thought it might be.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I'm not sure if this is an argument against nihilism but I've seen people tend to interpret it to mean that there is no meaning at all that can be made which I disagree with. I personally think that there is no objective meaning (at least none that can be proven) and that you are free to choose your own meaning within the bounds of human limitations and human norms. I think that this is far better than abiding to an objective meaning as it means that you're free to choose why you want to continue living life and go through all of the struggles that people go through.

Yes, everything is meaningless in a grand scope of things but human beings aren't alive in the grand scope of things to begin with. 80 years compared to billions of years is basically negligible and it's our lives now that matter. So, make your own meaning for it all...

...or don't, that's valid too. Perhaps you don't need meaning to live to begin with

 

[platypusfan]

Okay I just wanted to reply that after thinking about it and reading all these responses (thanks for the responses btw) I am not sure if what I am feeling is even nihilism. It's more of acknowledging that even the concept of meaning itself is made up so that's why it feels like it doesn't matter much to me. I think. I do want to make my own meaning and believe it matters but it is sort of difficult to just decide that. I don't see this as negative, and it seems that nihilism is meant to be a negative outlook. I'm still not completely sure as I don't know anything about philosophy but seeing the different perspectives from people who dislike life is definitely interesting.

 

[binkie]

Existentialism. Which is largely similar but with a "do what you enjoy" pep in its step. Everything can be meaningless but that also means that you can choose what is meaningful to you.

 

[SexyIncél]

There's also anarchism. Certainly more fun, unless you don't wanna be fun — which is ok too

 

[ChoclateIsSweet]

Nothing matters so everything matters. If everything returns to nothing, and my existence is but a tiny blip in the system then having a delicious meal tonight is the most important thing. I've also noticed that whenever I was close to death, I craved the mundane so much more. I walk very recklessly so whenever I end up getting almost hit by a car, I always end up thinking, "Oh shit, I'm going to be late.".

 

[Forever Sleep]

I think a certain pessimism/ cynicism towards this world and its rules can protect you from being utterly exploited. So, to that extent, I value the nihilistic ideas I hold.

I just think in terms of practicality though- if you are going to go on living in this world, does it really do people any favours? I sometimes get the sense that nihilists wear their beliefs like a badge of honour. Like it makes them superior to everyone else because, they can see 'the truth'. How does this 'truth' benefit them though? Do they think they'll be rewarded for working it out? I suppose the difficulty is- when you see it, you can't exactly un-see it. Although, I suppose you can choose how much you dwell on it.

Nihilists just seem to exist in turmoil or anhedonia. I guess it's fine if you don't have to do anything in life. Don't have to earn money etc. But if you do, then you have to comply to societies rules and I imagine that's torture for a nihilist.

I just think in a way, life's hard enough as it is. To strip away all delussions or distractions too because they're 'pointless', no wonder they're climbing the walls! It's kind of odd that there don't seem to be so many hedonistic nihilists- although, I guess they wouldn't be on here!

Plus, there's the argument that philosophy isn't fact. It's simply a way of seeing the world. It may make the most sense of course but, it won't make much difference to the world either. Only how you perceive and exist in it . Basically, we're all going to live for a bit and then die. To some extent you could say- if it doesn't matter anyway how you spend your time and think about the world, why not go with a less depressing stance? Of course, I don't for one minute think it's as easy as that. Otherwise, we'd all just 'think' ouselves happy.

I guess though, it's like anything else. If alcohol makes you violent, don't drink. If eating fast food makes you fat and lethargic, don't eat it. If reading up on the pointlessness of life feeds your depression- avoid it.

 

[Moonomyth]

I'm not actually sure why I ought to have an argument against nihilism. What's the argument for having an argument against nihilism?

 

[Linda]

I don't think like has any ultimate purpose or meaning. (But that doesn't stop me finding short-term purpose in some of the things I do. I am trying to finish writing a book on a scientific subject, and that gives me a reason to get up in the morning.) But to go from that to rejecting all religion and moral principles is, quite simply, a non-sequitur. I happen to think that all religion is nonsense, but my reasons for thinking that have nothing to do with the absence of any ultimate purpose in life. I also think that moral princples come, ultimately, from biology and evolution, not from where most people asume they come from; they too have nothing to do with ultimate purpose(s).

 

[Shrike]

Nihilism as presented is what I consider to be an unstable philosophy. Kind of like how some elements out there may float for a while but will inevitably bound or react with something else soon enough. Nihilists cannot exist in practice.

Nihilism implies a stillness, quietness, neutrality that the world simply does not possess.

The world pulls you places. Pressure is put on you to rush to and fro. Certainly things not always good. Opposition to that is something as well. Neither is nihilism. Nihilism requires agency, absolute total freedom, to do... nothing. That is precisely what we do not trivially possess.

 

[Ambivalent1]

There's a little bit of overlap with Buddhism. There, the emphasis is on Śūnyatā, translated as emptiness or nothingness.

However, this philosophy is a means of accepting the futility of the material world of impermanence and thus finding peace within it. But it doesn't stop there, since the dissolution of the arrogant, selfish, noisy, suffering human ego - which can happen while the body is still alive - will bring profound insights into the infinite nature of ultimate reality.

Have you made much progress?

 

[Pluto]

Have you made much progress?

Things are more hopeful at the moment, even if the big shift has remained elusive.

I found that the big blockages for me were trauma and the lack of a basic support network. It was only a couple of days ago that I finally started serious therapy, and I'm just finishing up with my current job which has become quite toxic. As such, I've returned to focus on this topic.

It does help a lot to be able to talk about it, though twice now I've drafted big long posts about Eastern logic for the Philosophy forum but rejected them before sending.

The other thing is that from the mind's perspective, the big shift in consciousness is an event in the future to look forward to. This is only partly true, as it's actually something that is already the case right now, but normally unrecognised. Thus, the appropriate action is investigating the present experience, not waiting. I'd made the 'seeker who has not found' into an identity. That's another mental trap. The idea is dissolving identity.