Resource Manipulation Tactics

[GoodPersonEffed]

From Wikipedia, here are the covert manipulation techniques identified by George Simon in the book In Sheep's Clothing. From narcissists to guilt trippers, these are tactics that warn your boundaries and/or autonomy are under attack:

• Lying (by commission) : It is hard to tell if somebody is lying at the time they do it, although often the truth may be apparent later when it is too late. One way to minimize the chances of being lied to is to understand that some personality types (particularly psychopaths) are experts at the art of lying and cheating, doing it frequently, and often in subtle ways.
• Lying by omission: This is a subtle form of lying by withholding a significant amount of the truth. This technique is also used in propaganda.
• Denial: Manipulator refuses to admit that they have done something wrong.
• Rationalization: An excuse made by the manipulator for inappropriate behavior. Rationalization is closely related to spin.
• Minimization: This is a type of denial coupled with rationalization. The manipulator asserts that their behavior is not as harmful or irresponsible as someone else was suggesting, for example, saying that a taunt or insult was only a joke.
• Selective inattention or selective attention: Manipulator refuses to pay attention to anything that may distract from their agenda, saying things like "I don't want to hear it".
• Diversion: Manipulator not giving a straight answer to a straight question and instead being diversionary, steering the conversation onto another topic.
• Evasion: Similar to diversion but giving irrelevant, rambling, vague responses, weasel words.
• Covert intimidation: Manipulator throwing the victim onto the defensive by using veiled (subtle, indirect or implied) threats.
• Guilt trip: A special kind of intimidation tactic. A manipulator suggests to the conscientious victim that they do not care enough, are too selfish or have it easy. This usually results in the victim feeling bad, keeping them in a self-doubting, anxious and submissive position.
• Shaming: Manipulator uses sarcasm and put-downs to increase fear and self-doubt in the victim. Manipulators use this tactic to make others feel unworthy and therefore defer to them. Shaming tactics can be very subtle such as a fierce look or glance, unpleasant tone of voice, rhetorical comments, subtle sarcasm. Manipulators can make one feel ashamed for even daring to challenge them. It is an effective way to foster a sense of inadequacy in the victim.
• Vilifying the victim: More than any other, this tactic is a powerful means of putting the victim on the defensive while simultaneously masking the aggressive intent of the manipulator, while the manipulator falsely accuses the victim as being an abuser in response when the victim stands up for or defends themselves or their position.
• Playing the victim role: Manipulator portrays themself as a victim of circumstance or of someone else's behavior in order to gain pity, sympathy or evoke compassion and thereby get something from another. Caring and conscientious people cannot stand to see anyone suffering and the manipulator often finds it easy to play on sympathy to get cooperation.
• Playing the servant role: Cloaking a self-serving agenda in the guise of a service to a more noble cause, for example saying they are acting in a certain way to be "obedient" to or in "service" to an authority figure or "just doing their job".
• Seduction: Manipulator uses charm, praise, flattery or overtly supporting others in order to get them to lower their defenses and give their trust and loyalty to the manipulator. They will also offer help with the intent to gain trust and access to an unsuspecting victim they have charmed.
• Projecting the blame (blaming others): Manipulator scapegoats in often subtle, hard-to-detect ways. Often, the manipulator will project their own thinking onto the victim, making the victim look like they have done something wrong. Manipulators will also claim that the victim is the one who is at fault for believing lies that they were conned into believing, as if the victim forced the manipulator to be deceitful. All blame, except for the part that is used by the manipulator to accept false guilt, is done in order to make the victim feel guilty about making healthy choices, correct thinking and good behaviors. It is frequently used as a means of psychological and emotional manipulation and control. Manipulators lie about lying, only to re-manipulate the original, less believable story into a "more acceptable" truth that the victim will believe. Projecting lies as being the truth is another common method of control and manipulation. Manipulators love to falsely accuse the victim as "deserving to be treated that way." They often claim that the victim is crazy and/or abusive, especially when there is evidence against the manipulator. (See Feigning, below.)
• Feigning innocence: Manipulator tries to suggest that any harm done was unintentional or that they did not do something that they were accused of. Manipulator may put on a look of surprise or indignation. This tactic makes the victim question their own judgment and possibly their own sanity.
• Feigning confusion: Manipulator tries to play dumb by pretending they do not know what the victim is talking about or is confused about an important issue brought to their attention. The manipulator intentionally confuses the victim in order for the victim to doubt their own accuracy of perception, often pointing out key elements that the manipulator intentionally included in case there is room for doubt. Sometimes manipulators will have used cohorts in advance to help back up their story.
• Brandishing anger: Manipulator uses anger to brandish sufficient emotional intensity and rage to shock the victim into submission. The manipulator is not actually angry, they just put on an act. They just want what they want and get "angry" when denied. Controlled anger is often used as a manipulation tactic to avoid confrontation, avoid telling the truth or to further hide intent. There are often threats used by the manipulator of going to the police, or falsely reporting abuses that the manipulator intentionally contrived to scare or intimidate the victim into submission. Blackmail and other threats of exposure are other forms of controlled anger and manipulation, especially when the victim refuses initial requests or suggestions by the manipulator. Anger is also used as a defense so the manipulator can avoid telling truths at inconvenient times or circumstances. Anger is often used as a tool or defense to ward off inquiries or suspicion. The victim becomes more focused on the anger instead of the manipulation tactic.
• Bandwagon effect: Manipulator comforts the victim into submission by claiming (whether true or false) that many people already have done something, and the victim should as well. These include phrases such as "Many people like you ..." or "Everyone does this anyways." Such manipulation can be seen in peer pressure situations, often occurring in scenarios where the manipulator attempts to influence the victim into trying drugs or other substances.

Adding to the list gaslighting: An attempt to manipulate the victim's perception of reality in order to have greater control of and power over the victim.

 

[TAW122]

Bookmarked this as this is a good resource. Thanks for taking the time to compile a list of manipulation tactics that normies use. I have experience all (or at least almost all) of these tactics throughout my life and it's good to be aware of what they are trying to do to hinder us so that we can counter them.

 

[Epsilon0]

Quite hilarious manipulation technique my former boss tried to pull on me:

"We have decided to give you the title assistant head principal, but unfortunately we cannot offer no increase in salary at the present time. The trust we put in you and the challenges that come with the position are enough of a reward, we believe".

Me, inner monologue: Did she just use the royal "we"? And does she really wanna give the job to someone who falls for this nonsense?

 

[pine3s]

That's a great list. I'd like to add The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies. Should the link stop working one day, here's the same text on Pastebin. The blog posting contains the following five topics (copied from the article):

1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum
2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent)
5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

It's an important read for everyone browsing the web for info these days, as manipulation and censorship have skyrocketed to unimaginable heights.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

That's a great list. I'd like to add The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies. Should the link stop working one day, here's the same text on Pastebin. The blog posting contains the following five topics (copied from the article):

1. COINTELPRO Techniques for dilution, misdirection and control of a internet forum
2. Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation
3. Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist
4. How to Spot a Spy (Cointelpro Agent)
5. Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

It's an important read for everyone browsing the web for info these days, as manipulation and censorship have skyrocketed to unimaginable heights.

Fabulous contribution!




From In Sheep's Clothing, here are weaknesses manipulators seek to exploit:

1.NAIVETÉ. You may be one of those individuals who finds it too hard to accept the notion that there really are people as cunning, devious, and ruthless as your gut tells you the manipulator in your life is. That is, you may even be prone to engage in "neurotic" denial. If you are, even when you're confronted with abundant evidence you're dealing with a ruthless conniver, you may refuse to believe it, reluctantly accepting reality only after being victimized too often.

2.OVER-CONSCIENTIOUSNESS. Ask yourself if you're one of those people who is much harder on themselves that anybody else. You might be the kind of person who is too willing to give a would-be manipulator the benefit of the doubt. When they do something to hurt you, you may be too ready to see their side of things and too willing to blame yourself when they go on the attack and throw you on the defensive.

3.LOW SELF-CONFIDENCE. You may be one of those persons who is overly self-doubting, or chronically unsure of your right to pursue your legitimate wants and needs. You may lack confidence about your ability to face conflicts directly and resolve them effectively. If so, you're likely to quit asserting yourself prematurely and also likely to go on the defensive too easily when challenged by an aggressive personality.

4.OVER-INTELLECTUALIZATION. You may be one of those persons who tries too hard to understand. If you're also one who assumes that people only do hurtful things when there's some legitimate, understandable reason, you might delude yourself into believing that uncovering and understanding all the reasons for your manipulator's behavior will be sufficient to make things different. Sometimes, by being overly focused on the possible reasons for a behavior, you may inadvertently excuse it. Other times, you might get so wrapped-up in trying to understand what's going on that you forget that someone is merely fighting to gain advantage over you and that you should be devoting your time and energy to taking necessary steps to protect and empower yourself. If you over-intellectualize, you'll likely have trouble accepting the simple philosophy that there are people in this world who fight too much, fight underhandedly, and for no other purpose than to get what they want.

5.EMOTIONAL DEPENDENCY. You may have submissive personality characteristics rooted in deep fears of independence and autonomy. If so, you might be attracted to the more confident-appearing, independent, aggressive personalities in the first place. After becoming involved in a relationship with them, you may also tend to let such people run over you out of fear that if you stand up to them you may be "abandoned" altogether. The more emotionally dependent you are on someone, the more vulnerable you are to being exploited and manipulated by them.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Excellent post by @escapefromabuse, in which he shared a resource from a self-professed narcissist that describes the impacts on a victim of narcissistic/emotional abuse, whether the perpetrator is an individual or a system of abusive power:

https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/narcissistic-emotional-abuse.31158/

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Listed below are the seven principles of influence from Robert Cialdini's book, Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion.

Interesting that he began the research because he felt manipulated by sales and advertising, and resentful of it, so he sought to learn how they manipulate in order to combat their undue influence over him; and yet, the book has become a hugely popular instruction manual for sales and business professionals.

The book was published decades ago, and Cialdini is now a retired but still teaching professor of psychology. I wish he would have followed up during his active years with research to learn and share practical tools for self-defense, much as I wish the same from researchers of narcissistic and covert manipulation. The book suggests some defenses for selected persuasion tactics, but overall I find the book's main function is to create awareness, which does indeed provide some protection, so I add it to this resource.

1. Reciprocity. The idea of reciprocity says that people by nature feel obliged to provide either discounts or concessions to others if they've received favors from those others. Psychology explains this by stressing that we humans simply hate to feel indebted to other people.
2. Commitment (and Consistency). This principles explains that humans have a deep need to be seen as consistent. Once we have publicly committed to something or someone, we are much more likely to go through and deliver on that commitment…hence consistency.
3. Social Proof. This is when people do what they observe other people doing (when uncertain, there is safety in numbers).
4. Authority. We trust authority figures and they are inherently more persuasive because of this (authority can be based on many factors – wealth, uniforms, status, etc.).
5. Liking. The more you like someone, the more likely it is you'll be persuaded by them.
6. Scarcity. When you believe something is in short supply, you want it more.
7. Unity. It's about the categories that individuals use to define themselves and their groups, such as race, ethnicity, nationality, and family, as well as political and religious affiliations. A key characteristic of these categories is that their members tend to feel at one with, merged with, the others. They are the categories in which the conduct one member influences the self-esteem of other members. Simply put, we is the shared me.

 

[deadalready]

Quite hilarious manipulation technique my former boss tried to pull on me:

"We have decided to give you the title assistant head principal, but unfortunately we cannot offer no increase in salary at the present time. The trust we put in you and the challenges that come with the position are enough of a reward, we believe".

Me, inner monologue: Did she just use the royal "we"? And does she really wanna give the job to someone who falls for this nonsense?

It might not be a manipulation tactic, maybe you aren't ready (fear, etc) for the job, so your defense mechanism treat it as a manipulation tactic? But it also depends on how common getting a raise in position without getting an increase in salary.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

OMG, someone is wrong on the internet! I must address this immediately!!!!

It might not be a manipulation tactic, maybe you aren't ready (fear, etc) for the job, so your defense mechanism treat it as a manipulation tactic? But it also depends on how common getting a raise in position without getting an increase in salary.

Manipulation tactics used by the boss to convince @Epsilon0 to do something against her best interest, that is, to take on a heavier work load and increased responsibility for the same amount of pay:

We have decided to give you the title assistant head principal (1), but unfortunately we cannot offer no increase in salary at the present time (2). The trust we put in you (3) and the challenges that come with the position (4) are enough of a reward, we believe (5)".

1. The lure, the bait, the magical dangling carrot, the seduction (see OP): a title.

2. The reality: same pay for 4, the challenges of the position, which include a higher level of accountability (can be blamed for more), based on 3, the level of trust invested in @Epsilon0, another seduction.

5. The spin (see OP): 1, 3 and 4 are rewards rather than onuses.


The vampire says: You'll live forever, you just need to allow me to hurt you a little bit with my teeth every once in a while, and gradually suck out all of your life force, and, technically, eventually kill you, but it will be worth it! Your blood is going to taste really good to me and will keep me going, but never mind that, you're going to live forever!!! Why are you saying no? Are you afraid of immortality? Are you not ready for it? I think the problem here is yours. I mean, it's pretty common that if someone wants a reward, they have to sacrifice their life force for the benefit of others. You're not a victim here, you're just being defensive. You're treating my offer like manipulation, and quite frankly that's just wrong. Go sit in the corner and think about how wrong you are. When you understand you're wrong, come back and let's get on with the blood-sucking -- I mean, your reward. Yeah. That's totally what I meant. Reward. This is all for you, because you're so amazing and worthy.

 

[Epsilon0]

OMG, someone is wrong on the internet! I must address this immediately!!!!




Manipulation tactics used by the boss to convince @Epsilon0 to do something against her best interest, that is, to take on a heavier work load and increased responsibility for the same amount of pay:

We have decided to give you the title assistant head principal (1), but unfortunately we cannot offer no increase in salary at the present time (2). The trust we put in you (3) and the challenges that come with the position (4) are enough of a reward, we believe (5)".

1. The lure, the bait, the magical dangling carrot, the seduction (see OP): a title.

2. The reality: same pay for 4, the challenges of the position, which include a higher level of accountability (can be blamed for more), based on 3, the level of trust invested in @Epsilon0, another seduction.

5. The spin (see OP): 1, 3 and 4 are rewards rather than onuses.


The vampire says: You'll live forever, you just need to allow me to hurt you a little bit with my teeth every once in a while, and gradually suck out all of your life force, and, technically, eventually kill you, but it will be worth it! Your blood is going to taste really good to me and will keep me going, but never mind that, you're going to live forever!!! Why are you saying no? Are you afraid of immortality? Are you not ready for it? I think the problem here is yours. I mean, it's pretty common that if someone wants a reward, they have to sacrifice their life force for the benefit of others. You're not a victim here, you're just being defensive. You're treating my offer like manipulation, and quite frankly that's just wrong. Go sit in the corner and think about how wrong you are. When you understand you're wrong, come back and let's get on with the blood-sucking -- I mean, your reward. Yeah. That's totally what I meant. Reward. This is all for you, because you're so amazing and worthy.

Oh @GoodPersonEffed

Your evaluation of the offer is of course spot on, and anyone with work experience or a shred of critical thinking sees right through the flattery and the manipulation.

In fact, the manipulation in this particular case is so obvious, it is actually embarassing for the person making the offer.

My guess is that the user who wrote the post to which you replied is either young or has been shielded from the dog-eat-dog reality of a private company built on hierharchical power structures and an instatiable thirst for profit.

Still, I wonder how one navigates the modern world if one lacks the skill to detect manipulation which is this obvious.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

"The Laws of Emotions," 1988 article by psychologist Nico Frijda that laid out his working theory of how emotions function, including motivating us to next actions, why satisfaction is so elusive, and how we manipulate ourselves. I found it to be a good companion piece to the seven principles of influence in post 7 above.

https://www.academia.edu/3467405/The_laws_of_emotion

 

[deadpixels]

After reading about those tactics, I'm starting to see it everywhere, send help!

 

[Chupacabra 44]

Wanted to acknowledge this post and to advise that based on your book recommendation I had a close family relative download and read it a few months ago, because this person was being manipulated by another close family member.

GPE, based on your breath of knowledge on this topic have you concluded that these actions originate in the conscious mind in all cases or can these tactics originate in the subconscious? In other words, do manipulaters consciously make the decision to manipulate in most or all cases? Reference point, no perception of my utizing any of these tactics, and I tend to be fairly mindful as to my shortcomings, but I'm asking myself could I be missing something within my subconscious.

I speculate that once a manipulator develops habits these traits can retreat into subconscious. But, what about the organization origination of these tactics?

Also, I'm going to go out on a limb to suggest that I have not been the only lurker who has benefited from stuff you contribute to the forum. On behave of all my fellow lurkers - thank you.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

While I'm not thrilled that the forum can be viewed by non-members, I'm very glad that posts like this have been able to have positive impacts outside the forum.

GPE, based on your breath of knowledge on this topic have you concluded that these actions originate in the conscious mind in all cases or can these tactics originate in the subconscious? In other words, do manipulaters consciously make the decision to manipulate in most or all cases? Reference point, no perception of my utizing any of these tactics, and I tend to be fairly mindful as to my shortcomings, but I'm asking myself could I be missing something within my subconscious.

I speculate that once a manipulator develops habits these traits can retreat into subconscious. But, what about the organization origination of these tactics?

I don't at all think that it's conscious behavior for the majority of people. Something that Simon says in the book is that, while one may wonder why another manipulates, that's not what's important; what's important is to recognize manipulation and act to protect oneself.

I've had people in my life who function this way, in particular a close relative who fits the passive-aggressive personality type. She truly doesn't understand how manipulative and controlling she is. I am aware of the extreme disempowerment she experienced in her youth, and her way of coping was to get revenge when it's least expected, and to manipulate to get her needs met because she was victimized when her vulnerability was known. I could have just as easily turned out the same way, but I didn't.

I've seen many forum members who know that they do things in a manipulative way to get their emotional or other needs met, rather than trying to do so directly, including "attention-seeking" type actions. Some have said it is terrifying for them to be rejected or to be judged.

Personally, I take offense to someone trying to take from me what I do not offer, or to reject it and then try to take it in a way that I didn't offer access to. I take offense to someone trying to dictate and manage my perceptions. Why do I take offense? Because it doesn't feel good, because I perceive such things as theft and covert assault. Such are the acts of an enemy. The relative I mentioned tries to manipulate situations for the others' good as she determines it for them, and if the situations result in benefit, then it reinforces to her that the ends justify her means, and she knew all along what was best, the other person doesn't really know that their no is harmful to themselves, it needs to be overridden for thier own good. Woe to the person who doesn't go along and/or who calls her out, because she has internal defenses, internal alarms to protect her inner self, defend, and fight. This doesn't make her a bad person, but an emotionally unsafe one.

I have compassion for whatever causes someone to develop such that they manipulate, perhaps are narcissistic, or even socipathic or psychopathic. However, they are not safe for me to be around, I need defenses and, if possible, to be inaccessible to them since, aware or not, they do harm, and either don't want to or can't change. For some it is absolutely terrifying to take the risk to be direct and honest, and perhaps to face what caused them to be that way if they don't have the external or internal resources to manage it. But likewise, it only compounds the problem to go along with it; in Boundaries, the authors say that changing one's No will not make things better, and Brene Brown says that allowing people to get away with crossing boundaries causes resentment. I've experienced the truth of both of those statements. I've also experienced that we are our boundaries; if someone doesn't like my boundaries, they don't like me, if they hate my boundaries, they hate me, if they respect and appreciate my boundaries, they respect and appreciate me. If I give up my boundaries, I give up my self, and give it to someone else. If I can't manage my self, then that's another issue, but no one else can possibly do it in a way that serves my best interests, only someone else's.

 

[Chupacabra 44]

While I'm not thrilled that the forum can be viewed by non-members, I'm very glad that posts like this have been able to have positive impacts outside the forum.



I don't at all think that it's conscious behavior for the majority of people. Something that Simon says in the book is that, while one may wonder why another manipulates, that's not what's important; what's important is to recognize manipulation and act to protect oneself.

I've had people in my life who function this way, in particular a close relative who fits the passive-aggressive personality type. She truly doesn't understand how manipulative and controlling she is. I am aware of the extreme disempowerment she experienced in her youth, and her way of coping was to get revenge when it's least expected, and to manipulate to get her needs met because she was victimized when her vulnerability was known. I could have just as easily turned out the same way, but I didn't.

I've seen many forum members who know that they do things in a manipulative way to get their emotional or other needs met, rather than trying to do so directly, including "attention-seeking" type actions. Some have said it is terrifying for them to be rejected or to be judged.

Personally, I take offense to someone trying to take from me what I do not offer, or to reject it and then try to take it in a way that I didn't offer access to. I take offense to someone trying to dictate and manage my perceptions. Why do I take offense? Because it doesn't feel good, because I perceive such things as theft and covert assault. Such are the acts of an enemy. The relative I mentioned tries to manipulate situations for the others' good as she determines it for them, and if the situations result in benefit, then it reinforces to her that the ends justify her means, and she knew all along what was best, the other person doesn't really know that their no is harmful to themselves, it needs to be overridden for thier own good. Woe to the person who doesn't go along and/or who calls her out, because she has internal defenses, internal alarms to protect her inner self, defend, and fight. This doesn't make her a bad person, but an emotionally unsafe one.

I have compassion for whatever causes someone to develop such that they manipulate, perhaps are narcissistic, or even socipathic or psychopathic. However, they are not safe for me to be around, I need defenses and, if possible, to be inaccessible to them since, aware or not, they do harm, and either don't want to or can't change. For some it is absolutely terrifying to take the risk to be direct and honest, and perhaps to face what caused them to be that way if they don't have the external or internal resources to manage it. But likewise, it only compounds the problem to go along with it; in Boundaries, the authors say that changing one's No will not make things better, and Brene Brown says that allowing people to get away with crossing boundaries causes resentment. I've experienced the truth of both of those statements. I've also experienced that we are our boundaries; if someone doesn't like my boundaries, they don't like me, if they hate my boundaries, they hate me, if they respect and appreciate my boundaries, they respect and appreciate me. If I give up my boundaries, I give up my self, and give it to someone else. If I can't manage my self, then that's another issue, but no one else can possibly do it in a way that serves my best interests, only someone else's.

@GoodPersonEffed

The problem with Lurkers is the OMG response when first exposed to goodbye threads, IMO. I stumbled accross SS in late October, as you know. Back then, between late October and Christmas there were seemingly endless CTBs. I seem to recall many nights were up to three people at a time were CTBing all at the exact same time. I'm reading in goodbye threads, "have a nice journey", "safe travels", "save me a seat on the bus".......And, I'm like what the f**k is this! What in the world is going on here? Is this real? Totally shocked. Today, I 100% get it.

Three days later the Rachel 74 scamming fiasco unfolded. Reading her post, I read this person and my sixth sense told me - this person is up to no good. Next, here comes @Stan CTB - I hadn't been on long enough to understand all the out pouring of support for this person. Then, some young guy, an upcoming voice actor got doxxed on line and he was convinced his life was over and he CTBed with SN.......all this reeled me in hook line and sinker.

You read my opinion of this stuff on my other thread, but if this initial exposure shocked me so significantly I can only imagine how some grieving pro-life mom, who just lost her child to CTB is going to be outraged when she sees these CTB threads. If I couldn't understand how is the mom going to understand?

I perceive that if the administrator's were to separate 100% of the goodbye threads into a member only section, like with the partner thread, it would protect the forum significantly. I like the idea of keeping all else open to lurkers, personally, but respect your opinion of potentially wanting everything members only.

The altruistic problem here using myself as anecdotal example is that I could have really messed up with CTB implementation had I not obtained correct information here vs incorrect information I obtained else where. Never in a million years would I have joined SS if it were closed to my lurking in advance, because of my own quirkiness.

 

[Xocoyotziin]

4.OVER-INTELLECTUALIZATION.

Oh man this one screwed me over with someone I had some kind of fight with. I'm glad to see it written in words by someone else.
It got to the point where they figured out I had a problem with this and they'd say total gibberish because they knew I'd try to decode it
...It's actually kind of funny from an outside perspective but it's VERY weird how these relationships insidiously evolve, and you're vaguely aware of the fact that it is evolving every moment you choose not to step back. Then before you know it you're doing ridiculous stuff like that.
It's probably karma or something in my case at least, even if I'm serving the interest of some rando who has nothing to really do with me.
It won't matter when my brain is starved of oxygen and every experience gets wiped clean.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Awesome post in Recovery by @Fedrea.

30 Red Flags of Manipulative People

1. You feel on-edge around this person, but you still want them to like you. You find yourself writing off most of their questionable behavior as accidental.

www.psychopathfree.com

I found this list really useful and accurate.

Going by the premise that an amount of mental ill health is precipitated by abusive treatment from others. It was in my case.

To be fair, I think the list is more accurate for narcissists than sociopaths, and more accurate for romantic relationships than family, other interpersonal or work relationships.

"1. You feel on-edge around this person, but you still want them to like you. You find yourself writing off most of their questionable behavior as accidental or insensitive, because you're in constant competition with others for their attention and praise. They don't seem to care when you leave their side—they can just as easily move on to the next source of energy.

2. They withhold attention and undermine your self-esteem. After first hooking you with praise and flattery, they suddenly become reclusive and uninterested. They make you feel desperate & needy, ensuring that you are always the one to initiate contact or physical intimacy.

3. Plasters your Facebook page with compliments, flattery, songs, and poems. They text you dozens, if not hundreds of times per day. You come to rely on this over-communication as a source of confidence.

4. Quickly declares you their soul mate. And for some reason, you don't find it creepy. They tell you how much they have in common with you. On the first few dates, you do most of the talking and they just can't believe how perfect you are for them.

5. Compares you to everyone else in their life. Ex-lovers, friends, family members, and your eventual replacement. When idealizing, they make you feel special by telling you how much better you are than these people. When devaluing, they use these comparisons to hurt you.

6. Lies & excuses. There is always an excuse for everything, even things that don't require excusing. They make up lies faster than you can question them. They will always blame others—it is never their fault. They spend more time rationalizing their behavior than improving it.

7. No startle response. Total absence of anxiety, fear, and worry where there otherwise should be. They are also very easily bored by the familiar. You write this off as calm and cool, often feeling inferior and over-sensitive because you have normal human emotions.

8. Insults you with a condescending, joking sort of attitude. Smirks when you try to express yourself. Teasing becomes the primary mode of communication in your relationship. They subtly belittle your intelligence and achievements. If you point this out, they call you hypersensitive and crazy.

9. Uses social networking to provoke jealousy and rivalries while maintaining their cover of innocence. They once focused all of their attention on you, but now they post ambiguous videos and statuses to make you doubt your place in their heart. They bait previously denounced exes with old songs and inside jokes. They attend to new activity and ignores yours.

10. You find yourself playing detective. It's never happened in any other relationship, but suddenly you're scrolling back years on their Facebook page and albums. Same with their ex. You're seeking answers to a feeling you can't quite explain.

11. Surrounds themselves with former lovers and potential mates. Brags that their exes still want to sleep with him/her, but assures you there is nothing to worry about. These people make you feel jealous and give off the perception that your partner is in high-demand.

12. Hyperbolizes emotions while displaying none of them. They make passionate statements like "I've never felt so happy in my life" in a completely robotic voice. It sounds like an alien trying to explain how they imagine human emotions might feel.

13. You are the only one who sees their true colors. Others will think they're the nicest person in the world, even though they are used for money, resources, and attention. They won't care because he/she strategically distracts them with shallow praise (often done over social networking). Psychopaths are able to maintain superficial friendships far longer than their relationships.

14. Accuses you of emotions that they are intentionally provoking. They will call you jealous after blatantly flirting with their ex over social networking for the world to see. They will call you needy after intentionally ignoring you for three days straight.

15. Cannot put themselves in your shoes, or anyone else's for that matter. You find yourself desperately trying to explain how they might feel if you were treating them this way, and they just stare at you blankly.

16. You are engaged in constant conversations about their ex. You know them by name, and you know everything about their relationship—at least, your partner's version of events. The ex becomes one of the most frequent topics of discussion in your relationship.

17. You find yourself explaining the basic elements of human respect to a full-grown man/woman. Normal people understand the fundamental concepts of honesty and kindness. No adult should need to be told how they are making other people feel.

18. Focuses on your mistakes and ignores their own. If they're two hours late, don't forget that you were once five minutes late to your first date. If you point out their mistakes, they will always be quick to turn the conversation back on you.

19. Suddenly and completely bored by you. Gives you the silent treatment and becomes very annoyed that you seem to be interested in continuing the passionate relationship that they created. You are now a chore to them.

20. The ultimate hypocrite. They have extremely high expectations for fidelity, respect, and adoration. After the idealization phase, they will give none of this back to you. They will cheat, lie, insult, and degrade. But you are expected to remain perfect.

21. Sometimes it seems as though they've forgotten who they're supposed to be around you. They adopt different personas for different people—transforming their entire personality to match various audiences. It's always very eerie when they slip and accidentally use the wrong mask for you. You will start to feel that their personality just doesn't seem to add up.

22. An unusual amount of "crazy" people in their past. Any ex-partner or friend who did not come crawling back to them will likely be labeled jealous, bipolar, an alcoholic, or some other nasty smear. They will speak about you the same way to their next target.

23. Flatters your deepest insecurities. If you're self-conscious about your looks, they'll call you the sexiest person in the world. If you've got a need to entertain, they'll say you're the funniest person they've ever known. They will also mirror your greatest fantasies, playing whatever role is necessary to win your heart.

24. Frequently comments about what you're wearing and how you look. They try to arrange you. You become obsessed with your appearance, noticing flaws that likely don't even exist. During and after the relationship, you will spend significantly more time in front of the mirror. (Thank you to our member, ckwanderlust, for these valuable insights).

25. You fear that any fight could be your last. Normal couples argue to resolve issues, but psychopaths make it clear that negative conversations will jeopardize the relationship, especially ones regarding their behavior. You apologize and forgive quickly, otherwise you know they'll lose interest in you.

26. Obsessed with humiliating successful, kind & cheerful people. Delighted by the idea of breaking up friendships and marriages. If you work hard to maintain interpersonal peace in your life, they will make it their mission to uproot all of it.

27. Gaslighting. Blatantly denies their own manipulative behavior and ignores evidence when confronted with it. They will become angry if you attempt to disprove their delusions with facts.

28. They expect you to read their mind. If they stop communicating with you for several days, it's your fault for not knowing about the plans they never told you about. There will always be a self-victimizing excuse to go along with this.

29. Selfishness and a crippling thirst for attention. They drain the energy from you and consume your entire life. Their demand for adoration is insatiable. You thought you were the only one who could make them happy, but now you feel that anyone with a beating pulse could fit the role. However, the truth is: no one can fill the void of a psychopath's soul.

30. Your feelings. After a run-in with a psychopath, you will feel insane, exhausted, drained, shocked, suicidal, and empty. You will tear apart your entire life—spending money, ending friendships, and searching for some sort of reason behind it all. "

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Some more manipulation tactics and tools of assessment:







LYING

The following five statements should raise your red flag of deception:

1. "That's about it."
The word "about" is a word qualifier, which indicates the speaker has more to say but does not want to elaborate. If the speaker told the entire story, his or her response would be, "That's it." The word "about" signals that the response falls short of the entire story. Truthful people relate all the facts without fear of legal or social consequences. A deceptive person does not tell the complete story because there's something they don't want to disclose.

2. "You can't prove that."
The word "prove" suggests that evidence exists to verify the supposition or accusation posited, but the speaker failed to discover the hidden proof. Honest people do not think in terms of proof: They know that no evidence exists because they did not do what the speaker accused. Deceptive people know proof of their deception exists but the speaker has not yet discovered sufficient evidence to support the accusation.

3. "Why would I do that?"
Answering a question with a question is a huge red flag indicating the possibility of deception. Honest people make direct denials. They typically respond, "I didn't do that." Deceptive people are evasive, and when they are caught off guard, they need extra time to think of a believable response. A response like, "Why would I do that?" buys the deceptive person precious time to formulate such a response.

4. "Are you accusing me?"
In addition to answering a question with a question, the accused may subtly try to turn the tables on his or her accuser, putting the questioner on the defensive. The unspoken words of the accused are, "How dare you accuse me? Prepare to defend yourself." This subtle counterattack prompts the accuser to justify his or her accusations. In doing so, the accused buys time to press a counterattack or prepare a believable story. The simple answer to this question: "Yes, I am accusing you, or I would not have brought the topic up in the first place." This response parries the counterattack and puts the accused back on the defensive.

5. "I don't remember doing that."
Deceptive people often claim lack of memory as a way to cover the truth. This defense sets two traps for dissemblers:

First, in order to not remember what you did, you must first have an extant memory of the event. By definition, to not remember something you must have initially stored the information in your memory. The lack of memory indicates that the memory is stored in the brain but that the person cannot retrieve it. Truthful people typically respond, "I don't know." Lack of memory suggests the person cannot retrieve a memory and, therefore, does not know what happened. Honest people strive to do anything they can to retrieve the memory of an event. Deceptive people do not want to reveal remembered information for fear of revealing the truth.

The second trap is similar. A person cannot say, "I don't remember doing that," unless the person remembers what he or she actually did. The word "that" suggests the person did not remember doing a specific set of actions. In order to say, "I didn't do that," the person has to know what he or she did do. Logically, how can a person say he or she does not remember doing something when they have no memory of the event? The word "that" suggests memory of an event.

The questioner's response to this gambit should be, "What do you remember doing?" Honest people will tell you what they remember doing, to support their alibi. Dishonest people usually cling to the lack of memory by saying, "I don't know what I did." Here the questioner's response should be, "If you don't know what you did, it is possible that you did exactly what I described?" Deceptive people make no attempt to retrieve a memory of an action for fear of revealing the truth.

LAME EXCUSES ABUSERS USE

"I'm sorry but…" Any apology that ends with "but" is not a real apology. Rather it is an attempt to pass the blame onto the other person while not fully accepting responsibility. A true apology is expressed with remorse and doesn't point the finger.

"It's all your fault…" Blame shifting is a common tactic abusive people use to deflect their behavior. By pointing out some minor infraction done by the other person, they justify their abusiveness.

"You are so much like…" This statement is typically followed by the name of a person that either the abuser or the abused despises. The idea is that by saying the victim is acting similar to a distasteful person, the abuser is absolved for their behavior.

"You triggered me…" While the statement could be truthful, using past trauma as vindication for future abuse is not acceptable. Victims who want to heal, use their triggers to identify potential negative reactions so they can get better, not so they can continue to harm others.

"You make me so angry…" Here's a thought, "Why do you want to be around someone who makes you angry?" No one can "make" another person angry, at some point the choice to emote is a decision. But if someone is constantly antagonistic, why be with them?

"If you treated me with more respect…" Respect is earned over time, it cannot be commanded instantly. People who demand respect often don't deserve it. Respect should be given in the same measure it is received.

"If you didn't react that way…" This is another form of blame-shifting where the victim's responses are used to acquit the abuser. Most victims find that even when they modify their reactions, the abuser still does the same thing.

"Because you don't listen to me, I had to…" Instead of trying to find calmer ways of addressing an issue, the abuser uses this as an opportunity to escalate. There are any number of reasons why a person might not be listening and trying to force the matter does not make things better.

"If you hadn't done…" This is another combination of shifting the blame by highlighting a flaw in the other person. The underlying manipulation is to impose a parent/child-like relationship where the abuser is the authoritarian and the victim is needing correction.

"Your words hurt me so…" There is an old saying, "Hurt people hurt people". But even if a person is hurt by a statement, they are still responsible for how they react afterward. Being hurt is not an excuse.

"My whole family is this way…" By assigning blame to their family of origin, the abuser minimizes their actions as collective behavior. Because everyone in the family does in, then it is OK to continue abusing.

"It's in the blood…" Instead of using abusive behavior as a means for deciding to change, the abuser says it's part of their personality or someone in their family is the same way. This allows the abuser to escape responsibility.

"You won't take me seriously so I had to…" Abusers are generally dichotomous thinkers; things are either one extreme way or another. There is no middle ground. So when the victim minimizes a statement, they are forced to overreact instead of finding an alternative solution.

"You brought this on yourself…" This is another version of blame-shifting with an added twist of fortune-telling responsibility. By saying the victim should have predicted the abuse and avoided the subject, once again, the abuser is absolving themselves.

"You know what sets me off…" Everyone can be set off by something. Anger is a normal and healthy response during grieving when a person feels violated or taken advantage of, or even when someone they love is being harmed. Abusers, however, use anger to abuse.

"If you weren't such a *#@^%…" Name-calling is abusive behavior by itself. It demoralizes a person while elevating the abuser to superior status. Using it instead of apologizing widens the gap further.

"You're just being sensitive…" For the record, being sensitive is a gift, not a curse. This statement takes the positive traits of the victim and turns it into a negative. It is a reflection of an abuser not valuing their victim.

 

[Soul]

Ohh thank you, @GPE! DARVO describes my sister perfectly, although she would very likely say it's me. Any tips on how to unlock horns with someone who's trying this shit will be most gratefully received.

 

[Disappointered]

You're such a compassionate person aren't you? Thank god you're here to protect the members.

 

[TooConscious]

Sounds like all my bloody family. Jesus.

 

[AutoTap]

Sounds like all my bloody family. Jesus.

I'm so sorry but this caused me to smile. Just perfect wording. But yeh it seems to describe a lot of people doesn't it haha.

 

[TooConscious]

I'm so sorry but this caused me to smile. Just perfect wording. But yeh it seems to describe a lot of people doesn't it haha.

Glad it made you laugh. It's such a shame though those we are supposed to be close to tend to be the ones who cause us the most problems.

 

[StateOfMind]

No mention of Gaslighting?

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

No mention of Gaslighting?

That is correct.

Do you have a request or suggestion?

 

[Kramer]

A big reason why I want to die. I'm too honest for this world. Even "good" people pull shit from that list.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

Ohh thank you, @GPE! DARVO describes my sister perfectly, although she would very likely say it's me. Any tips on how to unlock horns with someone who's trying this shit will be most gratefully received.

All I can suggest is to do just that, unlock horns, disengage. If you can't disengage, then staying calm and returning to the point that's being evaded. In Sheep's Clothing has some good suggestions, as does It's All Your Fault.

I suggest watching Leslie Stahl's interview of Trump, or whatever her name is, the recent 60 Minutes interview. He DARVOed very quickly, ending the DARVO with, "You're just so negative." She obviously couldn't say, "Well, I gotta go, talk to you later" or "I'm feeling uncomfortable and need to call a time-out." She stayed calm, let him vent a bit, and then kept insisting on returning to the point. Perhaps if you do something like that your sister will get frustrated and end the interview early, too.

 

[feast or famine]

This image breaks it down pretty concisely and simplistically. I'd also suggest to anyone that if they feel like something is "off" with someone else, listen to that. Maybe it's not the best way to go through life, but I do think intuitions are a thing and they generally are telling you something for a reason.

Editing to add: Thank you @GoodPersonEffed for creating this thread. It is especially useful in a place like this where people's vulnerabilities can quickly become exploited.

No matter the things I've been through in life or what I have learned from the most skilled manipulators out there, I'm still very much susceptible to being lured in by someone because of my inherent good nature. I have to check myself more often.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

No mention of Gaslighting?

That is correct.

Do you have a request or suggestion?

Hold up, it was at the bottom of the list in the OP.

I forgot I'd added I when I edited the OP in January. Did you overlook it, or were you... gaslighting me?

 

[sufferingalways]

Some more manipulation tactics and tools of assessment:

View attachment 52693

View attachment 52694

View attachment 52695

LYING

The following five statements should raise your red flag of deception:

1. "That's about it."
The word "about" is a word qualifier, which indicates the speaker has more to say but does not want to elaborate. If the speaker told the entire story, his or her response would be, "That's it." The word "about" signals that the response falls short of the entire story. Truthful people relate all the facts without fear of legal or social consequences. A deceptive person does not tell the complete story because there's something they don't want to disclose.

2. "You can't prove that."
The word "prove" suggests that evidence exists to verify the supposition or accusation posited, but the speaker failed to discover the hidden proof. Honest people do not think in terms of proof: They know that no evidence exists because they did not do what the speaker accused. Deceptive people know proof of their deception exists but the speaker has not yet discovered sufficient evidence to support the accusation.

3. "Why would I do that?"
Answering a question with a question is a huge red flag indicating the possibility of deception. Honest people make direct denials. They typically respond, "I didn't do that." Deceptive people are evasive, and when they are caught off guard, they need extra time to think of a believable response. A response like, "Why would I do that?" buys the deceptive person precious time to formulate such a response.

4. "Are you accusing me?"
In addition to answering a question with a question, the accused may subtly try to turn the tables on his or her accuser, putting the questioner on the defensive. The unspoken words of the accused are, "How dare you accuse me? Prepare to defend yourself." This subtle counterattack prompts the accuser to justify his or her accusations. In doing so, the accused buys time to press a counterattack or prepare a believable story. The simple answer to this question: "Yes, I am accusing you, or I would not have brought the topic up in the first place." This response parries the counterattack and puts the accused back on the defensive.

5. "I don't remember doing that."
Deceptive people often claim lack of memory as a way to cover the truth. This defense sets two traps for dissemblers:

First, in order to not remember what you did, you must first have an extant memory of the event. By definition, to not remember something you must have initially stored the information in your memory. The lack of memory indicates that the memory is stored in the brain but that the person cannot retrieve it. Truthful people typically respond, "I don't know." Lack of memory suggests the person cannot retrieve a memory and, therefore, does not know what happened. Honest people strive to do anything they can to retrieve the memory of an event. Deceptive people do not want to reveal remembered information for fear of revealing the truth.

The second trap is similar. A person cannot say, "I don't remember doing that," unless the person remembers what he or she actually did. The word "that" suggests the person did not remember doing a specific set of actions. In order to say, "I didn't do that," the person has to know what he or she did do. Logically, how can a person say he or she does not remember doing something when they have no memory of the event? The word "that" suggests memory of an event.

The questioner's response to this gambit should be, "What do you remember doing?" Honest people will tell you what they remember doing, to support their alibi. Dishonest people usually cling to the lack of memory by saying, "I don't know what I did." Here the questioner's response should be, "If you don't know what you did, it is possible that you did exactly what I described?" Deceptive people make no attempt to retrieve a memory of an action for fear of revealing the truth.

LAME EXCUSES ABUSERS USE

"I'm sorry but…" Any apology that ends with "but" is not a real apology. Rather it is an attempt to pass the blame onto the other person while not fully accepting responsibility. A true apology is expressed with remorse and doesn't point the finger.

"It's all your fault…" Blame shifting is a common tactic abusive people use to deflect their behavior. By pointing out some minor infraction done by the other person, they justify their abusiveness.

"You are so much like…" This statement is typically followed by the name of a person that either the abuser or the abused despises. The idea is that by saying the victim is acting similar to a distasteful person, the abuser is absolved for their behavior.

"You triggered me…" While the statement could be truthful, using past trauma as vindication for future abuse is not acceptable. Victims who want to heal, use their triggers to identify potential negative reactions so they can get better, not so they can continue to harm others.

"You make me so angry…" Here's a thought, "Why do you want to be around someone who makes you angry?" No one can "make" another person angry, at some point the choice to emote is a decision. But if someone is constantly antagonistic, why be with them?

"If you treated me with more respect…" Respect is earned over time, it cannot be commanded instantly. People who demand respect often don't deserve it. Respect should be given in the same measure it is received.

"If you didn't react that way…" This is another form of blame-shifting where the victim's responses are used to acquit the abuser. Most victims find that even when they modify their reactions, the abuser still does the same thing.

"Because you don't listen to me, I had to…" Instead of trying to find calmer ways of addressing an issue, the abuser uses this as an opportunity to escalate. There are any number of reasons why a person might not be listening and trying to force the matter does not make things better.

"If you hadn't done…" This is another combination of shifting the blame by highlighting a flaw in the other person. The underlying manipulation is to impose a parent/child-like relationship where the abuser is the authoritarian and the victim is needing correction.

"Your words hurt me so…" There is an old saying, "Hurt people hurt people". But even if a person is hurt by a statement, they are still responsible for how they react afterward. Being hurt is not an excuse.

"My whole family is this way…" By assigning blame to their family of origin, the abuser minimizes their actions as collective behavior. Because everyone in the family does in, then it is OK to continue abusing.

"It's in the blood…" Instead of using abusive behavior as a means for deciding to change, the abuser says it's part of their personality or someone in their family is the same way. This allows the abuser to escape responsibility.

"You won't take me seriously so I had to…" Abusers are generally dichotomous thinkers; things are either one extreme way or another. There is no middle ground. So when the victim minimizes a statement, they are forced to overreact instead of finding an alternative solution.

"You brought this on yourself…" This is another version of blame-shifting with an added twist of fortune-telling responsibility. By saying the victim should have predicted the abuse and avoided the subject, once again, the abuser is absolving themselves.

"You know what sets me off…" Everyone can be set off by something. Anger is a normal and healthy response during grieving when a person feels violated or taken advantage of, or even when someone they love is being harmed. Abusers, however, use anger to abuse.

"If you weren't such a *#@^%…" Name-calling is abusive behavior by itself. It demoralizes a person while elevating the abuser to superior status. Using it instead of apologizing widens the gap further.

"You're just being sensitive…" For the record, being sensitive is a gift, not a curse. This statement takes the positive traits of the victim and turns it into a negative. It is a reflection of an abuser not valuing their victim.

I wanted to bump this topic a bit, so we can refer to it more easily.
I wonder if due to the helpful information this could be a sticky? @Marquis what do you think?