Venting I hate being catholic

[hoppybunny]

I wish I wasn't born a stupid catholic cause now no matter how much i try to convince myself that hell isn't real and how it's ok for me to kill myself. I just can't do it. I hate this so much. I just want to die and be free from this stupid place.

 

[imontheloose]

Do you truly believe hell exists or are you more agnostic to it hence the panic, a sort of fear of the unknown? Either or are natural and you shouldn't feel ashamed at all. The brain has no choice but to cope with its consciousness and sentience by invoking peculiar fantasies about what it cannot definitively experiment. You're certainly not alone, the first, nor last!

 

[liquid jen]

Yeah being excatholic is always kinda rough, me too

 

[Cosmophobic]

I love the fact that we tell kids about an idea like hell while they're still coming to terms with the fact things die at all. It's just good parenting to impose horrifying metaphysical notions on their little psyches.

 

[hoppybunny]

Do you truly believe hell exists or are you more agnostic to it hence the panic, a sort of fear of the unknown? Either or are natural and you shouldn't feel ashamed at all. The brain has no choice but to cope with its consciousness and sentience by invoking peculiar fantasies about what it cannot definitively experiment. You're certainly not alone, the first, nor last!

I am more agnostic. Basically, i know rationally and logically that christianity is majorly a sham as a religion however i don't know for sure if the concept of God exists and if hell is real or not. I'm still catholic because I believe in some kind of God. I just don't follow the religion itself anymore.

I love the fact that we tell kids about an idea like hell while they're still coming to terms with the fact things die at all. It's just good parenting to impose horrifying metaphysical notions on their little psyches.

Foreal! Like it sucks so much. Cause i know rationally that it doesn't make any sense but it's been programmed into me so deeply that I just can't stop believing it.

 

[imontheloose]

I am more agnostic. Basically, i know rationally and logically that christianity is majorly a sham as a religion however i don't know for sure if the concept of God exists and if hell is real or not. I'm still catholic because I believe in some kind of God. I just don't follow the religion itself anymore.

I'm not sure if you're interested in hearing the atheist position or not, but I'd be happy to share a reason of many why I think God's existence is unlikely if you wish?

I actually wish I was religious honestly. It would give me a sort of false confidence and clutch onto life being convinced some all powerful fella is watching me and causing me hell but it's for some unknown, great reason I will one day realise.

If God and hell does exist then God is going to have to beg for my forgiveness before I ever consider bowing down to him: no loving God does what he does and has done.

 

[hoppybunny]

I'm not sure if you're interested in hearing the atheist position or not, but I'd be happy to share a reason of many why I think God's existence is unlikely if you wish?

I actually wish I was religious honestly. It would give me a sort of false confidence and clutch onto life being convinced some all powerful fella is watching me and causing me hell but it's for some unknown, great reason I will one day realise.

If God and hell does exist then God is going to have to beg for my forgiveness before I ever consider bowing down to him: no loving God does what he does and has done.

Can you please share? Also on your last point, it's why I don't believe in the religion of christianity. I don't know if you've played the sims but I don't really believe God in general is all loving. Especially since you can't find any religious text whatsoever where he doesn't have favourites. I think God created us for his amusment and watches us doing whatever which is why he doesn't interfere when our life is going to shit.

my other theory is that God loves the devil as much as he loves us humans, which is shy he doesn't get rid of the devil and allows him to screw us over.

 

[notreallybored]

ב''ה, wait until you see what Judaism thinks.

(And, y'know, effectively the whole point of Catholicism is to justify taking from the original Israel while pretending G-d absolves Rome of manslaughter but it's okay to beat up the Jews for it, so feel free to get some actual history of what a clusterfuck that actual c. 40 "AD" - 400 "AD" period in history was for both the middle east and Roman empire replacing itself with the Church to get out of taxes.

See also the divine comedy of why Rabbis can fuck but studied Catholics aka "priests" can't, it's ancient Roman humor about who G-d actually wants to multiply.)

 

[imontheloose]

Can you please share? Also on your last point, it's why I don't believe in the religion of christianity. I don't know if you've played the sims but I don't really believe God in general is all loving. Especially since you can't find any religious text whatsoever where he doesn't have favourites. I think God created us for his amusment and watches us doing whatever which is why he doesn't interfere when our life is going to shit.

my other theory is that God loves the devil as much as he loves us humans, which is shy he doesn't get rid of the devil and allows him to screw us over.

Ha, I used to love the sims when I was a bit younger.

I think the problem of evil is my favourite argument against God. I wrote an 8 page document on this in my own time for no reason apart from keeping myself from killing myself one particular night, and I will share rough summaries from it (I can send you the doc if you wish...).

An animal has no reason to undergo excruciating suffering as they aren't given human consciousness or sentience; they just follow their instincts. I can grant that humans suffer a sort of weird, poetic suffering that could be made up for somehow, but animals simply don't get that. Evolutionary predation is systemic. Every tooth, claw, and windpipe, has been replicated generation after generation by natural selection. All animal suffering stems independently of the creature's moral choices.

Let's just look at an example, when a lion preys on the zebra, the lion's jaws wrap around its windpipe until the zebra slowly suffocates to death for 10-15 minutes. The zebra's larynx will collapse, carotid flow stalls, all whilst the animal is conscious. Why didn't God just make us survive via photosynthesis, or lace the lion's saliva with a fast-acting anaesthetic, or wire the bite reflex to sever the spinal cord outright? Some braconid wasps lay up to 50 eggs inside of caterpillars that slowly eat the caterpillar from the inside out whilst keeping the caterpillar mobile so it can forage on its behalf. Eventually, they chew through the integument and burst out, paralysing the caterpillar, yet alive as a standing meat-shield against predators. This all seems quite opposite of a perfectly engineered system by almighty God.

This isn't a once-in-a-while catastrophe like an earthquake either; this is the natural mechanism which God chose to be the backbone of how all around us functions and exists. This process is coded into genome, God's reasons must scale to a biosphere throbbing with pain signals every second. Even our silly human minds can sketch worlds that preserve every ecological function with a fraction of the torment. Why didn't God? He either exists and purposefully torments this one particular planet out of trillions for no reason, or he simply doesn't exist and we exist as a natural consequence of unlikely chemistry. The latter seems far more probable to me.

I attribute the same likelihood to God's existence as I do the tooth fairy.

 

[58Alice85]

I am Christian.
I have never paid attention to the after-death aspects of our faith.
Whenever I was busy with the faith, reading the church fathers, praying,always mysterious things happened in my personal life.
Eventually I became somewhat enraged, the God of this world is awesome, pure, and likes saving the souls of people.
People always slander him, working themselves in these evil situations with all the lies and torment, and then blaming their misery on him.
Eventually I started wondering, if God allows this torment, then what else would he allow?
And then I came up with the following, I can love God for his sake, like to personally satisfy him, not with the intention of being saved.
I swear God will allow us to satisfy him.
I also had some messed up hallucinations of having sex with God along the way, with voices screaming in the background claiming to be Satan.
But God is pure. How can we satisfy him? I even toyed with the idea of dressing up as Mary Magdalene then spending hours praying and masturbating at the same time, trying to satisfy him.
But his religion is against sexual immorality, plus would someone pure in their heart be satisfied by this?
btw i have xy chromosomes

 

[hoppybunny]

Ha, I used to love the sims when I was a bit younger.

I think the problem of evil is my favourite argument against God. I wrote an 8 page document on this in my own time for no reason apart from keeping myself from killing myself one particular night, and I will share rough summaries from it (I can send you the doc if you wish...).

An animal has no reason to undergo excruciating suffering as they aren't given human consciousness or sentience; they just follow their instincts. I can grant that humans suffer a sort of weird, poetic suffering that could be made up for somehow, but animals simply don't get that. Evolutionary predation is systemic. Every tooth, claw, and windpipe, has been replicated generation after generation by natural selection. All animal suffering stems independently of the creature's moral choices.

Let's just look at an example, when a lion preys on the zebra, the lion's jaws wrap around its windpipe until the zebra slowly suffocates to death for 10-15 minutes. The zebra's larynx will collapse, carotid flow stalls, all whilst the animal is conscious. Why didn't God just make us survive via photosynthesis, or lace the lion's saliva with a fast-acting anaesthetic, or wire the bite reflex to sever the spinal cord outright? Some braconid wasps lay up to 50 eggs inside of caterpillars that slowly eat the caterpillar from the inside out whilst keeping the caterpillar mobile so it can forage on its behalf. Eventually, they chew through the integument and burst out, paralysing the caterpillar, yet alive as a standing meat-shield against predators. This all seems quite opposite of a perfectly engineered system by almighty God.

This isn't a once-in-a-while catastrophe like an earthquake either; this is the natural mechanism which God chose to be the backbone of how all around us functions and exists. This process is coded into genome, God's reasons must scale to a biosphere throbbing with pain signals every second. Even our silly human minds can sketch worlds that preserve every ecological function with a fraction of the torment. Why didn't God? He either exists and purposefully torments this one particular planet out of trillions for no reason, or he simply doesn't exist and we exist as a natural consequence of unlikely chemistry. The latter seems far more probable to me.

I attribute the same likelihood to God's existence as I do the tooth fairy.

That's a very interesting take and I'd love to read the full document. And in all honesty i agree with you. But you lnow religious indoctrination is crazy. Like my brain has already rationalized that i won't get smited this instance for saying this because God is giving me a chance to repent before going to hell. It's so interesting the effects of religion on the thought patterns of people. Like i know what I'm saying makes no sense. But my heart believes that God is real and I just need to find the right way to worship. Like I'm mostly thinking catholisism is wrong not that I'm an atheist. Even though to me the greatest thing ever would be to disappear after death and be nothing.

 

[imontheloose]

That's a very interesting take and I'd love to read the full document. And in all honesty i agree with you. But you lnow religious indoctrination is crazy. Like my brain has already rationalized that i won't get smited this instance for saying this because God is giving me a chance to repent before going to hell. It's so interesting the effects of religion on the thought patterns of people. Like i know what I'm saying makes no sense. But my heart believes that God is real and I just need to find the right way to worship. Like I'm mostly thinking catholisism is wrong not that I'm an atheist. Even though to me the greatest thing ever would be to disappear after death and be nothing.

I totally understand you, fren. It's hard to just undo that much indoctrination, especially when it convinced you for so long.

 

[instormdrains]

Ha, I used to love the sims when I was a bit younger.

I think the problem of evil is my favourite argument against God. I wrote an 8 page document on this in my own time for no reason apart from keeping myself from killing myself one particular night, and I will share rough summaries from it (I can send you the doc if you wish...).

An animal has no reason to undergo excruciating suffering as they aren't given human consciousness or sentience; they just follow their instincts. I can grant that humans suffer a sort of weird, poetic suffering that could be made up for somehow, but animals simply don't get that. Evolutionary predation is systemic. Every tooth, claw, and windpipe, has been replicated generation after generation by natural selection. All animal suffering stems independently of the creature's moral choices.

Let's just look at an example, when a lion preys on the zebra, the lion's jaws wrap around its windpipe until the zebra slowly suffocates to death for 10-15 minutes. The zebra's larynx will collapse, carotid flow stalls, all whilst the animal is conscious. Why didn't God just make us survive via photosynthesis, or lace the lion's saliva with a fast-acting anaesthetic, or wire the bite reflex to sever the spinal cord outright? Some braconid wasps lay up to 50 eggs inside of caterpillars that slowly eat the caterpillar from the inside out whilst keeping the caterpillar mobile so it can forage on its behalf. Eventually, they chew through the integument and burst out, paralysing the caterpillar, yet alive as a standing meat-shield against predators. This all seems quite opposite of a perfectly engineered system by almighty God.

This isn't a once-in-a-while catastrophe like an earthquake either; this is the natural mechanism which God chose to be the backbone of how all around us functions and exists. This process is coded into genome, God's reasons must scale to a biosphere throbbing with pain signals every second. Even our silly human minds can sketch worlds that preserve every ecological function with a fraction of the torment. Why didn't God? He either exists and purposefully torments this one particular planet out of trillions for no reason, or he simply doesn't exist and we exist as a natural consequence of unlikely chemistry. The latter seems far more probable to me.

I attribute the same likelihood to God's existence as I do the tooth fairy.

Im a very devout Christian who's very involved with the catholic church. I understand what you mean when you say you want God to beg for forgiveness. In my life I've said 4 times throughout my life I hate you God becuase i was so frustrated with mental illness and suicidality. Dont get me wrong its still horrible to say but ive done it as well and I truly know where you are coming from. We're both on SS so we've lived different lives but im sure we've both struggled with horrendous things. God is on our side and near to the brokenhearted. From the bottom of my heart I am insanely sorry for what has happened in this life but please dont turn your back on christ im begging you. Beyond all my yapping I really do wish you the best and that one day if your interested you can rekindle your relationship with God


Tldr for yapping below
We dont have an explicit reason for why God allows animal suffering however going off of his character he must have a virtuous reason to do so. He's omnipotent so he knows the best way to do things which is whats going on now. He doesn't take pleasure in suffering and isn't distant to creation. Just becuase he allows something he doesn't like doesn't mean he's not powerful enough to stop it. We lack the objective morality to deem God as a monster in a secular worldview

The problem of animal suffering doesn't disprove chrisitanity. Im understanding what your saying as God allows suffering in the animal kingdom and has the authority to change things but doesn't therefore he's unloving. Alternatively he doesn't have the power to do so which makes him weak. Theses things contradict scripture therefore chrisitanity is false. (Sorry if I misread or missed anything)

Humans can brainstorm many ways to ease suffering yet God doesn't implement any of these things. It may seem like we have it all figured out but God is omnipotent and knows everything. In our limited knowledge we dont know exactly why he doesn't eradicate suffering instantly but he must have a good reason for it. This is like the inverse of the God of the Gaps argument where a Christian will say atheists cant say how matter came from nothing therefore God did it. That argument doesn't make sense in the same way an atheist doesn't know why God allows it therefore he's evil or weak.

God is almighty but his power coinsides with his virtue. Job 38-41: Show God's power and how he's totally in control of everything. Ezekiel 18: 30-32 conveys another important side of things. While he is all-powerful he stays his hand while judging and does things he doesn't desire. He could automatically change the hearts of everyone but doesn't becuase it'll be immoral to do so. We can see something similar with how Jesus was slaughtered and tortured on the cross. Jesus Christ is God yet he is worried about the torture that will soon ensue. He prays to the father twice but when the hour arrives he doesn't resist even though he could destroy them instantly. Matthew 26 42-54 He is a good God unlike us so despite his immense power he allows suffering to playout and even experiences it first hand for his own righteous reasons. While it is not explicitly stated why in scripture we can assume he has some type of virtuous reason to allow these things and animal suffering even if he doesn't delight in it

God wouldn't enjoy tormenting animals or humans for any sinister reason. Throughout scripture he nonstop offers jews and gentiles salvation and intervenes to save humanity. The biggest example is him becoming flesh and personally dying for us. There's a lot more examples of God showing mercy and caring for humanity. Matthew 8: Luke 18:35 Matthew 14: 13-21. Im not gonna list anymore becuase that'll take too long. If God truly was evil or distant there would be no hope for salvation and he never would of interacted with humanity at all. Also if he really delighted in the torture of humans or animals things could be infinitely worse. There could be some crazy cosmic horror that'd be on earth or something. Im kinda imaging the book I have no mouth and I must scream levels of torment. Even hell is just fire and lamenting distance from God he definitely could've cooked up an insane torture thing 1000000% worse if that was his main goal.

Lastly, in a world without God there is no such things as objective morality. We have no basis to ground our beliefs instead of right and wrong there just is. As we're both on ss im sure we have fringe views on ctb that others would see as evil or crazy. Who's to say who's right in a world without God. It's not evil for a lion to maul to death a zebra and why does its suffering even matter? When a tsunami destroys a town and its people thats just natural selection and a force of nature. We are all born as complete accidents and there are no rules to reality. We can't judge God for allowing suffering becuase we lack the objective framework to do so.

Im on mobile sorry for mistakes also id like to see the doc :)