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hatehypocrisy

hatehypocrisy

Member
Sep 12, 2022
89
Two men, A and B, want to know Ms. C's age, and C says my age is one of the 11 numbers below.
35, 36, 38
42, 45, 46
51, 55, 57
61, 62

Then she told to A the ten's place of her age and told to B of the one's place of her age.

A said, I don't know your age, and I also don't think B knows.
B said, at first I didn't know your age, now I knew.
A said, now I knew too.

So what is the age of Ms. C?
 
Madao

Madao

Certified MADAO (She/her)
Mar 30, 2023
35
It's either 45 or 61. Idek. Probs 61 tired of thinking
 
CutMyLip

CutMyLip

Member
Dec 5, 2022
8
If A knows for certain that B does not know at the start, then A must have been given 4 or 6. If A was given 3 or 5, it would be possible for B to have received either an 8 or a 7 (corresponding to 38 and 57) which are the only non-repeated ones place values so B would immediately know the correct answer.

Since B did not immediately know, B must have received 1, 2, 5, or 6. We can easily rule out 2, since B would have no way of differentiating between 42 and 62 and therefore could not know the correct answer after A's first statement. B knows the correct answer, so the 1, 5, or 6 in the ones place means that the correct answer must be 45, 46, or 61.

Since A knows the correct answer for certain after B narrows it down to 45, 46, or 61, it cannot be 45 or 46 since A would have no way of differentiating between the two if A was given a 4 at the start. If that were the case, B could have either 5 or 6 and still know for certain while A would be uncertain. Since A is certain, B must have a 1 and A must have a 6.

Ms. C is 61 years old
 
M

murun_b

Member
Aug 5, 2023
40
Finally my philosophy degree comes in handy! @CutMyLip has already provided a very nice solution. If we want to approach the puzzle with a theoretical framework in mind, we can employ Dynamic Epistemic Logic to model the situation.

Let there be 11 epistemic scenarios y_1, ..., y_11 corresponding to the possible ages. They are completely determined by their first and second digits. Assume we have two agents A and B. Initially (that is after C talked to A and B), two scenarios are epistemically indistinguishable for agent A if and only if they have the same first digit, and for B if and only if they agree on their second digit. The model thus looks as follows, where the arrows (red for A, orange for B) indicate that two scenarios are indistinguishable for an agent (reflexive arrows are omitted):
Sc1bmp

Now we get our first piece of incoming information, namely that A doesn't know which scenario is correct and furthermore knows that B also doesn't know. In the language of Epistemic Logic:


Inf1

where the indexed box reads as "the agent knows that ...". If we want to update such that all agents incorporate the incoming information we have to delete all scenarios where this statement is false. In particular we have to delete all scenarios that have a red arrow to a scenario where B knows how old C is, which is the case in 38 and 57. Hence, we throw out 35, 36, 38, 51, 55, and 57 and obtain the following updated model:
Sc2
Now the agents are informed that B knows how old C is. Expressed formally:
Inf3
This statement is true only in scenarios 61, 45, 46 (there are no orange arrows to other scenarios in these). We get rid of the relevant scenarios and obtain:

Sc3
Finally, A states that they know about C's age.
Inf2

Updating our model for the last time, we get:
Sc4
So, we have an answer to our question. Repeatedly updating our model according to the information sequentially revealed in the statement of the puzzle, we end up with 61 as the only possible scenario. Hence, C must be 61 years old.
 
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murun_b

Member
Aug 5, 2023
40
Damn, can you teach me *-*
Hahaha, I would advise against learning this stuff :) I wish I had learned something useful that could get me a good job, but no, I've spent years at uni studying philosophy and now all I can do is solve some puzzles on a su*cide forum hehe
 
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lucynpt

lucynpt

Member
Jul 9, 2023
7
Hahaha, I would advise against learning this stuff :) I wish I had learned something useful that could get me a good job, but no, I've spent years at uni studying philosophy and now all I can do is solve some puzzles on a su*cide forum hehe
I really admire people like you, I'm sure that you can do much better than this. Learing stuff was never a bad thing ^-^
 
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murun_b

Member
Aug 5, 2023
40
I really admire people like you, I'm sure that you can do much better than this. Learing stuff was never a bad thing ^-^
Thanks for the kind words :) It actually feels good to hear that even if it's just from a stranger <3
 
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